I very much agree.
What do you mean by folders? VST3s are normally all beeing installed in Programs/Common (Windows).
In Cubase Mediabay you can select “order by Manufacturer” for VST3s and it shows every instrument or FX by manufacturer and not by function then. You can even create your own categories. So no problem here… or did I understand you wrong.
Here’s a fact: how many hundreds of dollars or euros have you invested in UAD/UNIVERSAL AUDIO gear and plug-ins? I guess maybe you haven’t, that’s why you are not aware that once Cubase stops supporting VST2, everyone who has invested a large amount of money in UAD units and their plug-ins, those would become obsolete, unavailable, and there are no plans from UAD to move to VST3, you can ask the technical support yourself, or even the customer support directly and ask for it. I encourage anyone who doubts it, user or not, to ask UAD directly about this topic, I am not going to copy paste an email from UAD here for privacy reasons until I have their approval to do so.
You guess wrong, although VST2 is an old format, it is precisely his developmental age that makes it more stable, if you think that VST3 is stable, you are wrong, since in this case there is still a lot of instability in the VST3 versions that exist in the brands market, however the question was directly for @Matthias_Quellmann, since he could give a broader and more accurate answer than your guess.
The post you quote from my old bug report, since you have reached to my post from 5 years ago to give any kind of answer, was actually about a direct problem related to a Cubase 9 bug, this wasn’t an issue coming from the plug-ins and it was solved by Cubase in his following versions as this issue didn’t happened again after some update… Therefore, once again, your argument is valid but not accurate.
The latter about ID is interesting, and I didn’t know it was possible, however there are many plug-ins that even if they are active it is unlikely that they may not develop a VST3 version, such is the case of UAD.
UAD is definitely the big issue here for me and many others. I have way too much invested in them between hardware and software to ignore this. UA’s apparent apathy towards the topic is especially worrisome: all their attention seems to be focused elsewhere these days.
If you include NI and Komplete & Maschine integration on top I have near a few thousand invested in VST2 over the years that has no VSt3 version - and no roadmap announced either, so yes.
But what use is me complaining about it on Steinberg’s forum? I was annoyed at the start and simply woke up to the fact that companies like NI & UAD are the issue. It’s absolutely pointless complaining about it here, I’m afraid. Because A) there’s nothing that can be done this side, and B) it’s been debated to death already.
I would rather Steinberg moved on and improved the DAW… If we don’t see improvements because of this move, then Yes, I’ll go back to being annoyed again. But I’m very much hopeful of seeing more VST3 compatible plugins, sidechain support, more stability and advancing to MIDI 2.0 functionality.
I’ve listed all my VST2, blacklisted a load and I’ve swamped the companies who are lagging behind, and I will continue each month to show them my expectations as a customer . Moaning on here achieves nothing.
I received a reply from them last week saying they are aware of the situation and when there’s something to announce a statement will be made. Also iterated that it will be phased out over a period of years.
(Note the definitive words used in bold ).
You had a problem with VST2 in your own projects, hence why I linked the article. Plugin developers and other developers of other DAW/Hosts are in universal agreement that VST3 is more stable. Just because a fix has to be applied at the DAW level in your issue doesn’t deviate from that fact.
If UAD don’t offer a VST3 version then that means they will be entirely focused on Luna as a platform, so third party hosts with UAD plugs would be under threat - do you really see that happening?
UAD don’t want to announce anything and then be grilled if they’re late on it. It’s also in their favour to keep customers guessing so they ‘try’ Luna out if they’re concerned. Clever approach for them.
It’s the same as Steinberg don’t want to announce when C12 is out - it doesn’t mean C12 isn’t happening, we only know it is because they offered a grace period to ensure sales continued.
UAD could be going native with VST3 for all we know.
I’m done replying on this as there’s nothing else to say - you’re best taking this to the other VST2 threads really. If you have concerns about UAD then go speak with them again, and again, and again. Because you’ve posted on here again, and again, and again - and you’re talking to the wrong ear.
Again you are completely wrong… Once again I give you the example I gave above when most users complained about Steinberg’s monthly reactivation plan, that said, the company listened to their users and implemented a solution based on it.
also I remind you something important, this is a forum, part of the function of a forum is to communicate to the company as users the dissatisfaction of something among many other things, and expressing it leads to the company that cares for its customers, take it into account or not, depending on how much importance is given to a topic or not, the facebook of Steinberg is a great forum that the company pays attention and where many more users are expressed in this type of topics… Apparently you don’t see the point in complaining, because you don’t know how a forum and a space like this one works.
So that’s surprising because the answer I received was literally this morning, as I was planning to post the information, but decided it is better to wait for UAD to authorize it… (Note the definitive words used in bold ).
Haven’t you marked something with bold letters before? … you have an interesting way to write an argument…
Sure… only projects mixing VST3 and VST2 at the same time, five years ago and was an issue with Cubase, that is clear. This not happened in the following versions or in other DAWs.
Strange that you say so, a few paragraphs above you mention they “will” in bold and according to your contact with them, you contradict yourself very often…
As I said, my last contact with them was today in the morning…
it’s quite funny that you refer to a topic like “again and again and again”… when you are doing exactly that with your wrong VST2 or so so, argument by the way.
Yes, please post it here when authorised. As it demonstrates there are no plans for VST3 then it’s quite critical information for users.
hahaha, you welcome! I will, and it’s not that UAD asked me not to post it, it’s that all companies have a privacy notice at the end of their emails in case you haven’t noticed, it’s the protocol and to respect that I don’t take a screenshot and post it here, until I get the following response from them, after asking them if I can do that… Again, it is not critical information, no, we are not talking about confidential codes here, it is generalized information regarding File Extensions, followed by a link they added in their reply via e-mail, so as you like to guess and assume too much, you can guess and assume the next reply from UAD and meanwhile you can wait and have a coffee for your nerves…
On a slightly different tack, whenever it does come out (I’m thinking March/April so they can reasonably have a 12.5 update sales cycle in November), we will see big changes and clean up in the UI…many of which can be found in the updated design language in Dorico 4.
Hope so anyway, I really like how they have cleaned up that UI.
Hello. Long time lurker and reader of the forums, as well as a long time Cubase user.
I was wondering where would I invest my precious first post and it seems this is it. I definitely can’t speak in behalf of Steinberg but hear me out with a couple of thoughts on this (although you certainly didn’t ask for them):
- I’ve been perfectly fine and happy with Steinberg’s big game choices as of yet. Dongle out? Yes please. It’s not 2005 anymore, and I’m also a user of Pro Tools and several other pieces of software that depend on a physical iLok, so I’m pretty done with the dongle life. Some of the reasoning behind some of the dongle’s most caring advocates is pretty wild. I don’t think they’ve ever used Logic or Studio One before (or maybe they have and still like to caress their USB dongle every night to sleep). I think that, most of all, people don’t like change as some sort of generality.
On that subject matter, people don’t seem to pay attention that often to what Steinberg representatives have to say. They’ve said plenty of times that although they’re exploring subscription-based licensing as most software companies on the planet, they’re keeping the regular you buy it, you own it scheme, but instead locking a license to a computer instead of a USB dongle. I really don’t see why some people feel so deeply betrayed with this (I’ve been reading the forums for months).
It’s a fallacy to point at Facebook or even this forums to state “the feelings and opinions of the general Cubase users”. There are thousands of users, just like me, that have avoided forums and social media criticism for years. Being part of a vocal minority is not an indication of the overall feelings of a software-using community. That takes me to my third point…
VST2’s end of life cycle. OMG for real. Some people are really blowing this out of proportion. Here’s some basic yes or no questions to express my thoughts on the matter.
a) Is VST2 a stable and good platform that has served us faithfully for years? Yes.
b) Is VST2 old technology? Yes.
c) Does it matter that VST2 is old technology? Well, it depends, but at this point in time I’m very inclined to say yes.
d) Does it have to go? Yes.
And before I’m victim of a gruesome death by fire after that final answer, hear me out. VST3 was introduced 14 years ago. By today’s technology standards, it’s old technology but somehow we’re clinging to an even older technology for the sake of compatibility with older projects. I hear you peeps, as I have sessions that span a lifetime of 15 years and longer, but the great benefit is that we can have multiple versions of Cubase installed at once. Sure, Cubase 12 for M1 based Macs will not support VST2s anymore, but that’s technology for you. If your work totally depends on absolute compatibility with older projects, you should consider always having an older Intel-based machine with an older version of Cubase installed. Some of you make Steinberg look like they’re breaking some sort of sacred code but the truth is that this happens quite a lot. Pro Tools gutted its TDM and RTAS formats in favor of AAX almost a decade ago (and, just for curiosity a very similar conversation took place 11 years ago in the Avid forums: TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition. - Avid Pro Audio Community) and everyone eventually moved on: plug-in developers and users alike. I trust Steinberg when they say that focusing on VST3 development will increase the overall stability of the platform, and if any of you choose not to there are quite a handful of DAW alternatives to choose from that will still support VST2 if your work totally depends on the format.
After rereading my words, I seem like an incognito Steinberg representative disguised as a common user. Is Cubase perfect? Hell no. I love it and I know it by heart, but it’s quite buggy every now and then but hey, it’s familiar. I think Cubase feels quite similar to Pro Tools in many regards: both are programs with a long heritage and history, but they feel sometimes like old codes that keep getting new features and enhancements in an incremental way but that feel fatter and less agile every update (this merely an opinion based on daily hours of personal use, just to clarify) mostly in comparison with DAWs like Reaper or Logic Pro who are also far from perfect but are quite reliable. For every crash I’ve had in Logic Pro, I’ve had around 15 or 20 Cubase Pro crashes, but hey… it is what it is.
And now, some closing thoughts:
I won’t stop using Cubase Pro anytime soon. It’s far from perfect, but this Cubase 12 release seems very promising in many regards and I’m very expectant to see if they manage to trump 11.5. I really don’t care for a plethora of new features, but mostly performance optimizations. If it allows me to do everything I do in 11.5 in a quicker and more reliable way without the long loading times and susceptibility to sudden crashes, I’m all for it.
You guys are doing great by expressing your freedom of speech. That’s very important as users, and more-so I applaud Steinberg representatives like Mathias that take the time to attend some of your (our) concerns; but always remember to keep thoughts civil because some of you seem very confrontational in the way you express your concerns and thoughts on these matters. That doesn’t really help anyone.
Bring on VST4, I say!
Yeah, except the “12.5” part
hopefully not until November… is a long time already…
Fallacy? … You are very much mistaken, public opinions count more than you think and it is well proven, sure, there will be many thousands of users like you who does not appear in a forum in years and make their first post in a forum giving their opinion just like you, however, it is enough that there exists an important percentage of public opinions for Steinberg to pay attention to what the users are looking for, Facebook counts and this forum counts, it does not necessarily have to be the opinions of each and every one of the existen users, who like you had not given their opinion before.
Therefore, it is not that the public opinions are the feeling of the thousands of users that exist, however, the public opinions are the ones that count and the ones that the company listens and takes into account, as simple as that… so if you want to be taken into account, and you don’t agree with the opinions of others, the only way to make yourself heard is on the Steiberg Facebook account or here on this forum, or in the polls the company periodically do.
Do you know that one of the many disadvantages of VST3, is that a long reverb effect or a long delay effect, while you are working, will turn off earlier than desired? This is also the case if you are rendering a project in real time, the effect will cuts earlier due VST3 is designed to performs processing when there is an audio signal present… It can be and advantage for CPU for sure, however it is often a disadvantage when you are designing sound spaces or simply when you are developing something where you need a long reverb or a long delay…
On the other hand, based on your argument of saying: ok VST2 is old and it’s time for it to be replaced, even though due to its years is what has made it more stable than VST3, it would be like saying: Ok, let’s move on from Cubase and its updates, since this DAW is so old, exist since 1989, it’ s time to create a new DAW and stop supporting Cubase, because it’ s old, it doesn’t matter if you will not be able to continue opening your works made in Cubase unless you keep for ever with the older and latest version… Just forget about the long very long coding made for this DAW… its 2022 come on! new DAW is need it to clean the older. It sounds ridiculous isn’t?
Therefore, It seems to me that you are using the wrong logical assumption that since VST2 is old, it is time to move to VST3.
I get what you mean, but I stand by my points for sure.
What you mention regarding long reverb effects and long delay effects is certainly something I haven’t noticed so I have not much to add. I work fairly often with long delay times and reverbs for sure and I tend to favor the VST3 versions of my plug-ins. Lucky me, I guess?
With your second thing, you totally took my arguments out of context and called them ridiculous (I guess this is why I favored to stay out of these discussions ha). What I tried to express very diligently was that technology companies function like this and there’s no real point of discussion there. (whether we feel as consumers that’s right or wrong, that’s an entirely different thing ). VST2 is old tech, for sure, as is VST3 with age being my sole argument to say so, but I choose to trust the creator of the format when they say VST3 is going to be better in the long haul. Now, my point was: if Steinberg states that it’s time for VST2 to go I trust it’s going to be of benefit for the stability of the program, which I’m all in for. If you choose not to believe that, that’s perfectly fine and you can very calmly stay in 11.x or change DAW altogether because you don’t agree with Steinberg’s business practices, and that’s fair. Luckily, unlike DAWs like Logic, there’s easier ways to keep older versions on your systems that will be perfectly compatible with VST2 for years to come. Does it affect me in my work that VST2 is going away? Not much. Most of my constantly used plug-ins already exist in the VST3 format and I’m quite comfortable using them, so once again… lucky me, I guess? Let’s hope I’m not a victim of my long reverbs and delays being suddenly cut because of a VST3 coding thing. I’ll let you know.
Oh, and regarding the phallacy thing, I don’t think I’m mistaken but you’re totally entitled to that perspective and that’s cool. It’s the easiest thing in the world to form judgement based on, for example, answers in a Facebook post where Steinberg say they’re dropping VST2 format in the next 24 months. Sure, there is discontent, but does that discontent express the feelings of its entire user community? Hell no, and that’s where the phallacy kicks in and I’ve seen quite a lot of that going on around here. People with critique tend to be louder in most places of communication, which is kind of obvious to begin with; and you can imagine my surprise when I stumbled across the opinions on this forum and the heated debates that take place to no end when in my local college composing communities we have been very excited with everything that’s happening in Steinberg land. This is a personal observation and not a fact for sure (which is a perspective lots of people would benefit from when learning healthier ways to debate and discuss ideas, I feel).
Facebook or this forum are just a minuscule part of what “user opinion” means for a professional product.
If anything, products will (and do) get worse if too much attention is paid to user forums.
The population of these is highly unrepresentative of the general user base.
Way too many people with big opinions and little experience and with lots of time and disposition on their hands.
It’s more likely poor implementation by the developer of the plugins you’re using as they should be explicit in returning this information to the host - it’s all part of the VST3 framework and not a disadvantage. i.e.:-
If I were to pick a hole in VST3 as a whole it would be that the “Suspend” feature of VST3 really isn’t very reliable. How much of that is developer issues I don’t know, but I just turn the preference off in Cubase.
It can actually cause spikes when you have many plugins placing a load on the CPU during different sections. I much prefer the Studio One ‘nap’ approach as you can set it per plugin, which of course would run much better for long tail FX also.
Even Steinberg have u-turned on what this preference option should be set to on a default/fresh install. So, whether dropping VST2 in future will enable this to be better implemented - who knows?!
I’ve been using vst3 reverbs for plenty of time. I love very long reverbs and I’m using them very often for sound design. I didn’t had a single situation where reverb was cut before it fully decayed.
Surely I don’t use every single reverb ever released. Can you give examples of plugins that are causing this?
Ps. you can turn option to automatically turn off vst3 in Cubase Preferences.
It’s only fair if it’s worth it. It’s only fair if it has enough bug-fixes and desirable improvements to justify €99.
If it breaks stuff that costs us time and money out of our production schedules then Steinberg should pay us! Lets not all act like a bunch of fanboys getting all excited about this until we see what it is.