Speaking as one of those geeky users, I would encourage @bill19 to watch the videos I posted in this thread to decide for himself whether the results which WordBuilder can achieve are worth the effort.
Thank you for your suggestions - I did wonder if my first idea (using a local choir if I can persuade them) was the likliest option to get some form of how the music would sound - balance is also a problem, as higher notes can sometimes sound louder.
I am at an early stage of my writing - it has taked quite some time for me to realise that I will feel more comfortable writing for voices, and only recently I found out how difficult this is for a program like Dorico.
I have been trying to write music for some years.: I went to Bristol University for a couple of years, but they did not seem to concentrate too much on musical composition, so I withdrew. Since then, I have tried Sibelius (complex, and now costly), and then Dorico, which has a very different approach to writing, which I have found problematic, although I am beginning to make some progress.
I am well past my schooldays, having just celebrated my 78th birthday. It is perhaps for this reason that I keep asking questions, as I really do want to write some of the music in my head before it is too late.
Interesting! Can I suggest pen and paper? I donāt think itās helpful thinking about what these programs can do in this regard. Music theory and notation are your tools - score writing programs are just fancy pens. You donāt need them. Perhaps a composition summer school as well, to connect you with musicians?
Choirs and computer are not in their best phase of the dialogue. My suggestion is to just use the default āaahā vowel they can do with little issues, and think to a real choir in your mind. There is no other way to avoid becoming more a programmer than a composer.
Paolo
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Thank you for your interesting reply - I use paper and pencil when working out ideas using my keyboard.
Perhaps a bit more of my life will explain more. I went to college to train to be a teacher, and my major subject was Music. I wrote and arranged various pieces of music designed for school use, while my thesis was on the history and development of blues - very interesting.
I taught in schools for a number of years, then went on to teach Maths and Computing at the local tech College - including programming. My life was then interrupted for 18 years with ME or Chronic Fatigue. I could not even think, let alone persue anything musical.
My time at Bristol Uni was a wonderful time: I learnt so much, but the lack of composition eventually made me leave - I could not learn much about this. I left, and tried to learn in other ways, and have gradually realised that I really wanted to compose .
I am a member of a local choral society, singing a variety of music (although Covid has played havoc with it. )
Now, having established that I am able to look further into the world of Dorico and choral music, can I ask a few more questions, to find the limits of what is possible ?
a) Can Dorico use more than one sound file at a time - choral and orchestral ? If I decide to write a piece which includes both elements, and the characteristics of two VST would be needed to manage this, can it be done ?
b) Can Dorico deal with an orchestral fugue ?
c) I noticed when I looked at East West website under their choral sounds, that when the use of Word Builder was shown (video) all parts played. Can this choir deal with fugal parts ? (such as from Messiah - And He shall live for ever etc ?
d) looking at Word Builder (and what a program that is !) Can it deal with fugues ? I expect that this would be best answered by East West, but it could be useful.
The most comprehensive music I have in mind is about the journey of St. Cuthbert in the 7th/8th century, with elements of Norse music (if I can find it) plainsong, a choir and orchestra, and a Northumbrian pipe, a unique sound. I do not know whan or if I will complete his, but it is an aim
Bill
a) Yes, of course! You can use a different VST for each instrument, so you can have orchestral sounds, choral libraries, world instruments, electronica, etc, etc, all at the same time.
b) Yes, of course - Dorico can deal with full-orchestral works, and beyond.
c) Not quite sure I understand this, but again: each instrument is/can be a separate sound, from a separate VST, and you can have more than youāll need. It doesnāt care whether itās a fugue or not.
d) Again, not quite sure I understand the significance of fugues in the noises a sample library plays. But you can have one instance of PLAY for each vocal part, and they can be doing different things.
Thank you, Ben, I will file this for future use.
Bill
Iāve seen this or similar logic repeated a few times. I find it rather unhelpful if Iām honest. Itās like telling someone, āyou want to write a book? You donāt need a computer. Just write it out in long-hand cursive. Much more efficient. Thatās how real authors have done it for centuries!ā
I can work sooooooo much faster with a program than by writing by hand. And itās legible. And itās half-engraved by the mere act of me putting it into the program.
Unless you think you could write a book faster by hand, then I doubt you could score faster by hand either.
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I donāt mean to be unhelpful, but to some people struggling with notation software is a lot slower than just writing it out. In fact some professional composers I have known find it quicker over all to prepare parts by hand. Itās so easy to get distracted by having to program this and that when what you really want to do is just write. Part of my business is just helping people to use software that baffles them.
Typing novels - very quick if you can touch type. Less so if you type one fingered. Even that though is quicker than inputting notes on a complex notation program you donāt understand.
I mean, why not use a typewriter? If you want neat music, why not use acetate?
In my last reply to you, I wrote that I would normally write on paper and add to something like Dorico when I reached a suitable point to copy it. I agree that there is little point in trying to put musical ideas into a computer directly - it can only lead to confusion in the long run.
It would be wonderful to go to a summer school for musicians, but in these Covid days it is not an option. A tutor would be much more useful - when I can find one !
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On the offchance that youāre UK based, look up COMA (Contemporary Music for All) - they do great summer schools. Iām sure there are courses and workshops running still here and there - probably zoom ones tooā¦
P.s. cursive worked for J.K Rowlingā¦
A new library is just being announced here (with a special introductory price) that includes an orchestra with historical instruments and a choir. Perhaps of interest to some here.
Miroire (orchestraltools.com)
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I didnāt say you couldnāt write good books or scores that way, just that itās not as efficient in the overwhelming majority of cases.
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Hello,
I did look up COMA and found that they are not at all the type of music I am writing. If you want to look up Morten Lauridsen, O Nata Lux, then you might be nearer to what I am influenced by.
(This is related, I promise) My Father in Law took up trumpet again after my wife saw a bumper sticker for a local 50 and over concert band. By the end I lost count of how many different bands (and types of bands) he performed with regularlyā¦ I am confident there is an equally lively choral equivalent here. The quality could be mixed, but some took it to a WOW level, including my Father in Law. They were more than willing to perform a piece or two for me, and there is nothing like the experience IMO. Its even an opportunity to conduct. That was pre-COVID though, sigh
Just saying live performers are not un-attainable if the Virus lets us. Also, East West for sure supports multiple independent voices doing whatever, though the setup might take some explaining if you are doing 8 part double mixed or whatever.
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Tried it myself. Hereās a link to a summary of my experiences so far.
Donāt be so sure CoMA wouldnāt have a way - but while we are there, there are groups linked with CoMA like EXAUDI (run by composer James Weeks) that often try things out. Thereās also a London group CoMA Voices, and they recently brought out a book of part songs. That having been said the real problem on the choral scene is that very few choirs have the resources to invest in performances or workshops of new works. Iām lucky enough to be associated with one, so am thrown the odd bone of a premiere.
There might be similar resources out there though. If not then there definitely should be. Also send compositions into competitions - you might get lucky and get performances and and association with that choirā¦
Hello,
After asking so many questions I feel that, with so much help from so many - thank you - I feel that AT PRESENT I should accept that I cannot use EWSC yet - my computer is simply not enough for it - but also the Play/Opus problem is something I could not fully work with - yet.
So I will take up the kind suggestion to get to know Noteperformer, and by using this I will be able to take many steps in learning such things as assigning sounds and making some progress in music: I shall also use the suggestion to allocate different instruments for choral music - after all, when I am ready I can reassign choirs !
In the meantime I am sure I will still be asking questions - there is so much to learn - but I will be composing, and building up the spec for a more appropriate computer for EWSC.
Bill
Not only in regards to choral word-builder sample libraries, but ease of use for sample libraries in general: this is a really difficult field to break into.
I canāt even keep track of the number of queries along this line that end up simply returning to NotePerformer. For most users, the time and learning curve required simply arenāt worth it.
I love NP, but I desperately wish there were a deeper product offering in this space. I would pay 10 times the price of NotePerformer for something that worked seamlessly in Dorico. No messing with expression maps or templates, no hidden keyswitches. Press play and go.
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