Why isn't there a Nuage Section?

Hi John,

Welcome to the club!

Fredo

Did you get Nuage I/O modules as well? If you use their I/O, does that make recording latency free, like using a desk?

Would you post some pics of your new setup?

Sure, just give me a few days, busy week here. john.

No, we didn’t get the I/O’s because we are Madi all over the place and I didn’t feel like changing everything to Dante. Or have a conversion box inbetween. But basically, it doesn’t make a difference. Both are using ASIO Direct Monitoring, which works perfect. The Nuage hardware has some extra features like build-in Bass management and calibration tools, but nothing I can’t live without.

Fredo

Did you get Nuage I/O modules as well? If you use their I/O, does that make recording latency free, like using a desk?

I did purchase the Nuage 16A/D but haven’t had the chance to install yet, currently running my RME Multiface as the I/O. john.

Does the hardware make recording latency free like using a real desk?

Any hardware that supports Asio direct monitoring can do that.
The Nuage hardware works like that, RME MADI, etc …

Fredo

Is there a button on the master module to directly order Yamaha plugins ?

More seriously, what about the manufacturing quality of the modules ? Is it China crap, China quality or Japan / German quality ?

It seems that there is a FAN behind the fader modules, what about its noise ?

On top of that, i did read the manual, integration inside Nuendo seems top of the line with great addition that no other control surface in the same price range can compete with.

Hopefully, Yamaha will release a lite version for users that cannot afford this price level, something that will be better that all existing stuff in the mid range area, and most importantly a device well supported / debugged at the driver and firmware level during Nuendo version upgrade periods so that users will not have to wait for fixes during months or years (or eternity) like this has been seen previously with third party control surface manufacturers (ping pong games).

No, but it displays your personal horoscope when you power it up in the morning.
So you know what to expect that day.

what about the manufacturing quality of the modules ? Is it China crap, China quality or Japan / German quality ?

It’s high quality, professional Yamaha-like. No Penny & Giles but decent, robust faders, knobs & buttons.

It seems that there is a FAN behind the fader modules, what about its noise ?

What fan?
:slight_smile:

Hopefully, Yamaha will release a lite version for users that cannot afford this price level, something that will be better that all existing stuff in the mid range area, and … etc …

That’s a bit of a contradiction isn’t it?
The only way to cut pricing is lowering the quality or reducing the feature set.
For what you get, Nuage is not expensive at all.

Fredo

If it would support Eucon I already had mine for sure. It’s a fair price-segment for a pro-controller.
But since it’s Nuendo-only it will not pay off for me.

The Avid S6 seems like a big step. Perfect integration into PT and Nuendo.
Unfortunately even the smallest config is nearly double price of Nuage, so way too expensive for a controller imo.
On the other side: This investment will let me work on the controller every day on every single job, whether it’s Nuendo or PT!

Times are changing, now we get “open” hardware from avid, and steinberg/yamaha builts nuendo-only-gear. (Although I’m aware that eucon isn’t “open” itself)

That is correct.
Although Steinberg “kind of” created (with Euphonix) the Eucon protocol they can’t use it in their hardware.
Any software manufacturer can license Eucon support from Avid to use it into their own software.
But for hardware it’s a different story. Only Avid, and Avid only is allowed to use the Eucon technology in their Hardware.

Fredo

The only way to cut pricing is lowering the quality or reducing the feature set.

Reducing the fader count to 8 should not hurt for some small post installations where space and budget is eventually limited and for smaller projects involving a single mixer engineer.

I would prefer to buy that from Yamaha instead of a third party manufacturer where you have less guaranties of compatibility each time you have updates at the Nuendo end. The history of many softwares is proving that and Nuendo makes no exception to the rule.

At this price level, it is more important to have perfect compatibility and a large feature set, even if the product is proprietary. Instead of an open product using Eucon eventually giving less capabilities and an hazardous medium and long term support. More Eucon is not open source.

I don’t see the point for small installations in getting more than eight faders. Anyway you have only 2 hands for mixing, this gives about 6 available agile fingers for normal peoples. The thumbs being quite difficult to use for this task specially when you have very short ones :smiley:

It’s much less expensive to add 24" screens, reduce the motorized faders count and use bank switching / advanced track selection (available in Nuendo 6). Except if you really need a large setup because of a mixer team working on the surface, or for marketing reasons so that clients can be impressed by your endless control surface.

Another point is that we could see soon a fully object oriented event system with automation, EQ effects and sends that could be applied directly inside events a la Samplitude. This mean that you will be able to drastically reduce the tracks count in your projects.

Smaller hardware means as well less expensive servicing and easier transport for mobile or automotive use.

So there is no fan behind the rear ventilation hole ? That’s a very good point. Fans are the opposite of teenage acne, they are bearable at the beginning but they become horrible when aging, making more and more awful noise.

There is a fan, but you can’t hear it.
When we are all really quit in the room, and we concentrate on listening for the fan (3 in our case), then we indeed can hear it a tiny-little bit, but it is well below the natural noisefloor of most rooms.

Fredo

About surround panning with Nuage :

Is it conceivable today to buy a 1300 $ non motorized joystick option when we can use a tablet fitted with a software like V-window for about 300$ ?

How can you punch in without creating pan jumps with a non motorized joystick like the JLCooper one ?
Is there something like a trim mode available ?

The last time i did try a Joystick, trim automation mode was not available in Nuendo 6 for panning.

I feel that a small tactile screen is better suited for surround panning.
This is even more true when relative touch is implemented, something available in the Surround PannerV5 and Anymix pro. For those who don’t know what relative touch is, it is available in the Nuendo mixer for faders as a preference in the “Editing”, “Controls” menu, Slider mode option.

Another question about surround mixing : is it possible to use two joysticks at the same time ?

Sorry can’t answer these questions since we have no joystick attached.

Fredo

I don’t hink that’s accurate. Yes, Nuage was built for Nuendo/Cubase, but the Yamaha Tech giving this Tutorial on Nuage says that it WILL WORK WITH OTHER PLATFORMS (at 1:43 on the video). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTqrz8Pyug

According to the Nuage Manual, if you install Nuage Protools bridge, you will be able to control a Protools DAW (mac only) but with limited functionality and only if a Nuendo DAW is connected to the Nuage system as the main DAW.

There is a hardware limit as well, no more than two fader modules + one master module.

This mean that you’ll need to buy Nuendo and put a second computer in the machine room.

OK, to be more accurate I can admit, that you can get a sort of HUI-Control, if you have

  • a second DAW
  • and a Mac (only)
    That’s not what I expect from a 20k$-controller. I can get the same with 150,-- Behringer.

But once more - I do not criticize Yamaha for not implementing Ecuon if they are not allowed to.
It’s just - when spending a 5-digit-amount for (just) a controller I need to control more. And it’s a bit difficult to invest in Nuage (for me, and propably for some others who just need to use PT).

Back on topic I would like to add, that I (old story…) would wish more commercial promotion of Steinberg. When I talk to other people in steinbergs home-country post business facilitys, most of them never even heard of sth like Nuage. But some already had hands-on the Avid S6, and followed their webinars. Online I just find a sub-sub-sub-page of yamaha, and an old video from one of their first presentations. …And no Nuage-Section on this forum.

But once more - I do not criticize Yamaha for not implementing Eucon if they are not allowed to.
It’s just - when spending a 5-digit-amount for (just) a controller I need to control more. And it’s a bit difficult to invest in Nuage (for me, and probably for some others who just need to use PT).

The situation is not so bad today. Historically, about 20 years ago, you needed to spend a 7 digit amount to get a full digital system with a professional control surface, working at best in 48 KHz - 16 or 24 bits. Typically Neve Capricorn, SSL Axiom or Sony Oxford systems.

Today it’s possible to have better functionalities than those dinosaurs for 5 digit amounts. Well you will not get a top level professional system at this price level, but if you don’t need 256 or 512 tracks and deep integration with latest technologies like Dolby Atmos this should be ok for most common uses.

The Nuage control surface seems to be deeply (and nicely) integrated with Nuendo, this mean that it will loose some functionality or will be sub optimal if integrated in another system.

You are right, European companies often have some difficulties to expand their market and reach a significant amount of market share. If you watch in the past, Samplitude and Sequoia who had at some time about 15-20 years of technological advance (mainly thanks to the full object oriented events technology but not only), did never reach the market share that they could have got because of a shy marketing.

Hopefully this could change in the future with Nuendo. There are technical reasons as well behind those half disasters. To get a high level of market share and technical recognition a product should be adapted to most potential users, without significant drawbacks compared to the market leaders. And to get this level of performance, great efforts need to be done, listening for a lot of top level professionals to get a good idea and a good balance of what is absolutely mandatory to support, what is optional, and what can be left to the programmers staff so that they can enjoy in developing some funny or genius bonus functions.

In short in Europe, we often have the funny and genius parts, but we are missing the mandatory things. This explain certainly partly why Nuendo did not get the market share and recognition he could have got. He need to catch up now to implement those missing mandatory functions and enhance its user interface.

Anyway the Nuage system is a very good basis for a future Nuendo version and it’s not so dramatic if it is not Eucon compatible. Something good would be a new open source communication protocol for control surfaces so that every one can profit of that. No need to reinvent the wheel, Ethernet and IP are here for the low level communication interfaces, and former protocols like MIDI and OSC can be extended or enhanced to support all necessary functions. SB did great standards for DAW like ASIO, ADM and VST, why not one more ?

It’s important for studio facilities to spend their money in products that can last a long time. Because of a lack of standardization in the DAW world specially for control surface protocols, a lot of control surfaces are finishing their life in the trash or are sold for nothing. This kind of hardware will never reach the “Vintage” qualifying that the previous generation of analog hardware did often get easily !

Domilik,

You seem to forget that Nuage is a controller and a controller only. The monitor section is as to be found in hardware mixers, in this case “powered” by the Nuendo Control Room. In order to be able to “control” multiple DAW’s (up to 3), the “master” Nuendo is needed to make all these control room functions to work. Even if Nuage would be able to control PT through Eucon or another protocol, the missing Control Room functions would make it useless anyway.

Regarding pricing … this is an endless discussion. Which mostly boils down to: “I want more for less money”.
This is a niche market, which per definition is a small market. Which makes the high-end gear for that market expensive.

I am very happy with my Nuage system, and I got what I paid for. Big time.
Actually, we are planning to get another system in later this year.

Fredo