Wierd Tempo changes Cubase 4

Hi all

My issue…

I am recording a demo. Live drums were recorded at a gig which I want to use in Cubase 4. Ill take Livin On A Prayer as an example of what Im recording.
I imported the drum wavs.
But I didnt change the tempo before importing them. The correct tempo should be 123bpm but I left it at default 120bpm. As I wanted to get the vocals done asap, I also imported a backing track which I made and is what the drummer was playing to at the gig so I could sing to the full track. Now Ive pretty much finished the vocals, I wanted to get the live drums more in time with the click (the drummer sis play to a click at the the gig), so I changed the tempo to 123bpm, but now the vocals have now been pushed forward and obviously completely out of time!

Is there any way to correct this? I don`t fancy killing myself again trying to do those vocal takes which I am now happy with. I have also made the same error with another song too and spent a lot of time on it.

Many thanks

Key words to look up: Straighten Up, Linear/ Musical Timebase and Audiowarp.

what if I export the files into wavs and then back into a new project set to 123bpm? Would that work? I am not an expert at doing the technical side of stuff so I`d love to find the easiest way possible.

Really look up Musical/Linear timebase.

Put the tempo back to 120bpm then switch all tracks to Linear time base and change the tempo to 123bpm.

After that you may need to line up the first bar by dragging the whole arrangement to the correct measure.

Also if you really want the click tight to the, what will be the slightly varying “drummer tempo” then have a look at what is called the Time Warp Tool. This is not timestretch but will enable you to move the grid to the beats thus have a click that will follow the fluctuating tempo of the drums perfectly.

Sorry I think I am confusing myself here as the suggestions I have tried do not seem to make any difference so I am clearlty doing something wrong. This is what I have…

A project which I kept in default 120bpm
8 imported wav tracks for the live drums which were recorded at the correct tempo (123bpm)
Half finished recorded vocals (decided to re-do some bits) recorded (not imported) at 120bpm
Midi tracks playing

Change ALL tracks (including midi) to linear?
Then change tempo to the intended speed of 123bpm?
Use the free warp tool? (which is in the tool bar?) - I dont get how this would do it as surely adjusting where the click lands wouldnt make the vocals in time with the drums as drums and vocals would change in relation with eachother?

I seem to have a block in my brain and can`t figure this out - I know this is bog standard to most of you guys so I really appreciate your patience.
Many thanks


I didn’t realise that you recorded the vocals at a different tempo to the drums!!!

I thought you had a drum track at 123bpm and recorded the vocals to a click of 123bpm and just wanted to get the project to follow the correct tempo.

So are you saying the drums are at 123bpm and the vocals are at 120bpm?

That is a problem. You can time stretch the vocals to fit but I personally never like the quality of the result.

Your best bet would be to redo the vocals.

Thats exactly what Ive done. AARRRRRGH!
So there is no way of correcting this?

Let me understand this…

The ‘guide backing track’ I used which was originally at 123bpm imported into a project that is at 120bpm is actrually playing at 120bpm then? And that`s why the vocal lines up with that but not the live drums?

Ok… a bit of detective work…

I imported the live drum track into a new project which is set at 123bpm and guess what? it starts to drift off the click after a minute or so. Now unless my drummer is the worlds best at falling behind the click gradually over time (which is highly unlikely) there is something wrong here - any tips? This was a simple job that has turned into a nightmare!

Was it recorded into Cubase, with the Cubase click, or with something else as click refernce? If you still have the original recording, export the click track also. If not, you´ll have to define a new clciktrack on your own in Cubase. (timewarp tool for example)

I called the guy who recorded the drums (on logic) and the same out of sync stuff happens his end - so does anyone have any ideas how this might have happened?

You’ve written why it happened in your first post. The ways to fix it have been mentioned multiple times. Your refusal to open the manual to investigate the terms mentioned is your main problem. Can’t help someone who won’t help themselves. :wink:

Ok, well explain this as it proves that it is NOT the tempo of which the vocals were being recorded.

Opened a new project.
Changed BPM to 123
Imported drum wavs (recorded to a click at 123bpm)
Imported backing track (recorded at 123bpm)
Synced up the first beat.
No vocals or anything other than what I have written here have been imported or other settins changed.

After about a minute they go out of sync.

This tells me that the problem was how the drums were recorded in the first place/exported. Also doesn`t the timewarp change where the click is placed? This is not what I need. I need the drums to adhere to the click.

It proves the exact opposite. I’ve already explained all there is to explain. Explain to me why you still refuse to read the manual on the topics listed above. You have absolutely no comprehension as to what’s going on, the manual would fix that.

True, in the end end it´s audiowarp you need. Advantage of first creating a tempo track with the timewarp tool (IMHO) is:
If you created that tempo track, you can simply open all single wav files in the sample editor, and each single one of them “sits” on the same “grid” - that is the tempo map just just created (once). (You can check that by switching on “manual definiton”: all the 1 and 3 should be on a BD hit, all the 2 and 4 on the snare - depending on the rhythm of course - I think you get the picture). Though it´s still slowing down / speeding up.
Now switching the drum files to “musical mode” in the sample editor´s “definiton” tab (and doing nothing else) will lock them to the one single grid, (which is the tempo track, and which is still slowing down or speeding up at the moment, but it´s the same reference for all drum tracks). Since You only used the timewarp tool in the project window until now, and did not move any handles in any sample editor, nothing should change. Now if you´ve done everything correct, and do now switch the tempo to fixed 120 bpm, all your drum tracks should follow the change, and if you´ve done the definition somewhat exact now play in 120 bpm. Now simply import your 120 bpm vocal files.
It´s a little hard to explain (and probably understand) , but it should work.
Without using the timewarp tool first to create the tempo map, you´d have to define every single drum file on it´s own, with no common Reference.

Thanks thinkingcap. It is a little hard to understand but I think I get it although I cant see a musical mode in teh definitions tab.

Maybe Im not explaining myself clearly... I know I dont have any comprehension as to whats going on! The tracks should just sit nicely in the project without any messing about so I dont get why its happening - as I said it`s doing the same thing on the other guys system BEFORE I even got the files and recorded to them etc.

I have read the manual, but what I have tried doesnt work, I have done a free warp on another song but cant wuite get the overheads to match up.

Sorry - is that Cubase 5? I got Cubase 4 and I don`t have that there - I just got “preview”

:unamused: Yes, sorry that´s Cubase 5… Which exact version of Cubase 4? I think the sample editor was changed with 4.5 though I don´t know if it then was the same like C5 (apart from Variaudio)

EDIT: Ithink the function of the “preview” button might be the same like the “musical mode” button in C 5. If not try in conjunction with the “Straighten up” button in the “playback” tab.

Were this a ship, it’d be so far off course that we’d see camels walking past. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

You mean me…? I guess yes…