Just saw that the new version av Apple Logic Pro not only includes Dolby Atmos mixing, but also upgraded versions of their native plugins - like their convolution reverb plugin Space Designer which now supports up to 7.1.2. As far as I can see Steinberg’s equivalent REVerence is still only 5.0. Will there be an upgraded version soon or would I be better off ditching that thought and buying an expensive 3rd party reverb plugin instead?
Totally with you on this!
Yes! This would be awesome
Agreed. This is actually what I came to the forum tonight to complain about. I dont like anything iZotope makes and there are very few reverbs in stereo I like to begin with but REVerance is one of the few I actually like.
If a 7.1.4 version of REVerance was part of the v12 update, I’d have already made the switch for that alone.
If I have to wait for it because they’re taking the time to make sure I get a realistic acoustic simulation equipped with vertical and every angle of reflection for a truly impressive Atmos tool that makes me think my studio is a NY Studio or French Cathedral, I understand. But, if its not here yet because they’re not working on it yet, Im very disappointed.
Not what you are after directly, but I’ve found two surround reverbs that I like the sound of. Both are from Liquid Sonics. Cinematic Rooms is an algorithmic reverb designed to be surround and does a really good job. One of the first algo verbs I’ve not disliked. Scales to 7.1.6 and handles crossfeed between all channels properly.
Seventh Heaven Professional is a hybrid-convolution reverb, but is a capture of a Bricasti M7, which is a hardware algo unit. Some of the best sounding reverbs I’ve ever heard, even when it is 100% wet. While that unit is stereo, they just added 7.1.6 support to the plugin. It is not a true surround calculation, it is basically 6 of them being run in parallel with the logic to do crossfeed, but it works pretty well.
Both are worth checking out, they have a free trial (requires iLok software but doesn’t need the dongle) if you want full atmos reverb.
I’m not aware of any convolution atmos verb and that may be something hard to get because it would likely need a TON of convolutions to do. So if you wanted something where you had a 7.1.6 space and you could basically pan something around it and have it move like you’d get with a true stereo reverb, you’d need like 169 convolutions, because each of the 13 input channels (presuming we exclude the sub) would need to be convolved for each of the 13 output channels. That is going to kill even a high end system. Never mind what you’d need to do to capture that kind of image.
More realistic might be something that did ambisonic reverb and used that. Waves actually did that with their IR-360 plugin for 5.1, but it doesn’t have any support for higher channel count, nor will it work directly on ambisonic busses near as I know.
VSL’s upcoming MIR 3D will be able to supply pretty much any output format you can think of, as it relies on 3rd order Ambisonics throughout its whole signal path.
I wouldn’t call it “ATMOS-compatible” in the actual sense because it won’t move objects (which the concept actually offers) through space, but it will feed all your speakers with properly panned and spatialized signals no matter where they are.
Yeah I’ve tried demos of all of those mentioned above. There’s a lot of good, and expensive, stuff out there. My favourite that really does the job is NUGEN Audio Paragon, which is a convo reverb supporting up to 7.1.2. But it’s like $600, and for someone like me who just does Atmos occasionally it’s kind of hard to motivate the cost.
Ya the cost can be an issue for sure. The non-pro version of Cinematic Rooms is probably the cheapest out there at $200, but you do lose the ability to tweak surround parameters.
I think it in part is just expensive to develop this new stuff, but also that companies are just trying to cash in while Atoms is still a high end thing.
Most Atmos mixers prefer to “brew their own” Atmos reverb using stereo verbs.
Much more important, IMO, is to get Spatial Audio monitoring. Imperative for Apple Music workflow & deliverables. This should be the top priority if Nuendo is going to be a serious contender for mixing Atmos music.
Just a note that Flux Ircam Verb goes up to 7.1.4. And they just quietly added that in a recent update at no cost. Quite a different business model to the likes of Exponential/Izotope.
Verb may not be the most advanced but it does sound great in many applications.
I’ve been getting ads from Nugen every day. $600 ain’t bad, considering the incredible amount of money it costs to have a high-end Atmos mixing room, but great simulated acoustics is something I’m known for so I’m extremely picky when it comes to reverbs I use. I want to be sure its my go-to before I add another $600 expense to the books and I want to know more about their updates beforehand also. I wont do it if I’ll just be spending another $600, or even $300, just to update when the next version comes out in a year or so. I’ve put us far enough into the red with the new Atmos rig as it is.
@TiKkO8803 yeah I know exactly what you mean!
On EA, I’ve corresponded with Michael Carnes about bugs and he was always a super nice guy. I however was irked that each iteration of his reverb was a whole new product. I know everyone has to make a living but I think there are better product models. Since the Izotope merger (a week after I bought Stratus), I have corresponded with Izo support about bugs in Stratus in VST hosts. They are firmly that ‘barring a catastrophic bug, there will be no further development on EA products’. So no 3D versions for me (or any other Izotope product ever).
@Sycraft-w the one convo I am playing with is Inspirata. I worked my way up to the ‘professional’ version in annual 50% off sales. It does Up to 7.1.2. There is apparently a coming ‘immersive’ version up to 22.1. It’s a huge download, tricky to setup, a whole new UI paradigm, obtuse, an absolute CPU monster, and can sound incredible. It will always be a special use verb for me I think.
I made my peace long ago that one reverb can’t satisfy every working situation. Or probably even five reverbs.
@BsoundNZ That one looks interesting, I have to imagine that it is also doing something like Ambisonics or other technique to cut down on the number of convolutions needed. It looks neat I might have to try it some time. I’d probably have to wait for a half off sale though ><
@RobL Probably not.
It’s an IR reverb. Thus it uses recorded IR samples for every space it has.
To make the current presets Atmos they (all of them located around the world) have to be re-recorded using a useful Atmos mic setup and there are absolutely no standards of how to do that.
Atmos is a replay format and not a fixed one either.
I have a small 7.1.4 and a cinema dub stage with 23.1.16 (made up of 43 speakers).
So how many mics should they be recorded with?
Using what type of recording technology?
Updating a sampled IR reverb to “Atmos” is simply not a small thing to do.
So your best bet (as suggested by others) is to use a algorithm reverb like cinematic rooms or Verberate immersive.
What I’m asking for is just for the REVerence plugin to be 7.1.2 (or 7.1.4) compatible rather than 5.0. Just like the updated Space Designer in the latest Logic Pro X, which is also an IR reverb.
Then of course, a couple of 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 IR’s included with that wouldn’t hurt.
I don’t have a problem with updates. Waves updates the plugins all the time and its worth spending the few hundred dollars every year to have the entire catalog updated (not happy to do it lol, but worth it). I just don’t want to continually be paying a lot for a single plugin or even a small bundle of them.
I absolutely despise iZotope. With the exception of RX (which isn’t the best but at least has its uses), they’re the Fruity Loops of plugins lol.
Stratus pops up at the top of the list everytime I search for Atmos reverb plugins, along with a bundle of other plugins and its clear from the marketing alone that they weren’t developed by iZotope (not the usual team anyway) but the fact that they’re under the iZotope banner makes me lose interest.
iZotope and Fruity Loops both have the same signature sound and that sound reminds me of those scenes in movies where a woman in a pristine white suit is standing in a glossy square white room with nothing but a few pieces of clean glass furniture with the room acoustics sounding like they have a high shelf boost as she speaks with perfect annunciation.
They would’ve blown engineers’ minds back in the 80s or even the 90s but bland is no longer the flavor of the month and all they’ve got is vanilla lol.
Anyway, it gives me a little hope to read that they aren’t actually iZotope products. Perhaps I can get the first version and just avoid updating to any future iZotope-made revisions. How do you like Stratus? Can it simulate warm natural environments or was it bought by iZotope because it was just vanilla enough to fit their brand?