Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

This can’t be upvoted enough, thanks Nick you shurely saved my day and the performance on two mashines : :smiley:

I’m now running 18 synths 64smp buffersize UR44 on Intel Core i7-7800X Skylake-X clocked to 4.5Ghz. I never go above 33% load and I have 2.3ms latency. My system are now rock steady.

This is what I find too. At a buffer of 64 or 32, performance improves when Hyperthreading is disabled but at 128 or above, it’s better with Hyperthreading on. I’m running an AMD 1920x (24 logical cores). Cubase can fully load all 24 cores, given the right type of project.

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Any official news on this?

Is this still a Thing? I mean it was announced almost a year ago :frowning: is this even possible to fix by Steinberg/Microsoft?

It appears that Windows Pro for Workstations will provide new, kernel-level optimisations for low latency applications.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/15/microsoft_windows_10_workstation/

https://blogs.windows.com/business/2017/08/10/microsoft-announces-windows-10-pro-workstations/#2GGpDlCofiCMEUoz.97

The new, relevant power plan is currently available via the Windows insider programme.

Is Steinberg looking into this? Can we have an update on whether Windows Pro for Workstations will affect the performance of Cubase Pro?

Thank you

Something else for consideration…

https://www.facebook.com/notes/vb-audio-software/finally-windows-10-could-support-audio/1646244165445117/

I read that - page swapping has been a feature of windows since the 16 bit days and still is, that article is a day late and a dollar short. If you don’t want pages swapped out, you need to tell the OS - it’s always been that way. Most applications, even audio ones don’t lock up a lot of memory as it has other negative consequences. Besides, once you hand off data to the an audio driver driver - it’s out of the applications hand.

Agreed, but…I did their test (not sure what it testes exactly) and indeed as they said, on win 7 I never went above 0.20ms and with my win10 partition on the same system I was at 69ms within a few minutes. So there is a problem there. BTW I don’t use myin10 for production only for some testing so I have no idea what the impact is.

Microsoft have optimize latency in Windows 10 great!
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/low-latency-audio

https://ibb.co/jDnNyH now we know the problem

  • WIN10 RS4 update will fix this (February 2018)
    lets hope :smiley:

Edit: 07.03 The Insider Preview Build 17115 (RS4) never have this problem its better then Win 7.
https://imgur.com/a/UAI6Q

Cheers

Does Windows Insider Preview Build 17115 (RS4) address the issue of limited thread counts? I’ve moved to Windows 7 and it works well, but would like to move back to Windows 10 (UAudio doesn’t officially support thunderbolt on Windows 7).

Feb 2018 has passed. Can anyone confirm that this is fixed and there is no limit to the number of cores on a CPU?

The first link is about low latency WASAPI, it is irrelevant as we are using ASIO that has lower latency anyway.
The second link is about the memory management that is poorly in the 1709 we hopefully al are running.
This is fixed in the new upcoming win10 release, and very well may be the course of audio interruptions.
This has nothing to do with the limited MMCSS threads that multi-core cpus can handle.
So nothing really indicates that this will ever change, at least MS have not given any statements about it, so this is pure speculation.
So currently there is

  1. MMCSS limit (multi-core dependent)
  2. FLS limit (plugins fail to load)
  3. Memory management latency issue (should be fixed in the next upcoming “big” windows10 update

I know that #1 is not a problem in Windows 7. Are #2 and #3?

2 yes, 3 no

Microsofts Developer Pete has pointed this:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/steinberg-cubase-nuendo/1169221-mmcss-windows-8-10-a.html

In Windows 10, the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service was moved from user-mode to kernel-mode, to reduce overhead and improve integration with the kernel thread scheduler.

As a side effect, a per-process limitation of 32 registered threads was introduced. Applications which register a large number of threads in a single process may see MMCSS registration fail in Windows 10, in circumstances where it succeeded in Windows Vista through Windows 8.1.

We are looking at how to address this.

In general, Microsoft recommends the following for developers:

  • Prefer using the Windows Real-Time Work Queue API Real-Time Work Queue API (Windows) over manually maintaining a set of dedicated threads.
  • Be prepared for MMCSS registration to fail, since MMCSS resources will vary from system to system, and from even from time to time, depending on what other applications on the system are doing.

but Pete linked this Text from password protected Forum (Windows Insiders Developers ), i cannot see in.

Reading this thread has made me excited - perhaps it is possible for me to get a decent performance from cubase using my machine - currently im experiencing incredibly poor stability, with audio drop outs, freezing and crashes - happens so much that I’m getting sick of using cubase.

Specs below- if anyone can advise on what I need to do to get a stable system I’ll PayPal them a cash reward (yes I’m serious)

https://ibb.co/kT66Bx

@venkmon, almost the same as my machine.
I observed that some installations of other programms can disturb Cubase. Then I observed that Cubase wworks different after updates. I suppose that you can get better performance if you reinstall whole system and don’t install any other programs after Cubase (except Steinberg products). I mean keep you machine clear as possible.

P.S. If you drive a car, you drive only a car and cannot take off in space; when you’ll “drive” a space ship, you won’t land on a street (I hope) :wink:

Install WIn7 64 let it update once, then install audio software and keep it away from the net afterwards.I am somewhat serious! Although win 10 can run smoothly for some, it is a little bit like Russian roulette. And even if you had a perfect system, the next win10 update might break it.

Oh and your system is not affected by the bug in this thread.

Is there anyone that have tried the new Windows for Workstations Ultimate Performance thing with your daw? If so Is there any performance increase in any way? Is it worth to make a new installation u think.

Basically the Hypertrading must be Off in the Bios, that will let you go with a steady comp. This will also advance into a buffer you can set below <128 Samples and will be steady. The rest is … Can my computer handle it ? Well i have my latency set for 8ms-10ms and that is good enough for me.
Lucky the Soundblaster lets me adjust in mS instead of buffer, so it is quite exact.