Windows 10: audio dropouts on multi-core CPU setups

Microsoft have optimize latency in Windows 10 great!
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/low-latency-audio

https://ibb.co/jDnNyH now we know the problem

  • WIN10 RS4 update will fix this (February 2018)
    lets hope :smiley:

Edit: 07.03 The Insider Preview Build 17115 (RS4) never have this problem its better then Win 7.
https://imgur.com/a/UAI6Q

Cheers

Does Windows Insider Preview Build 17115 (RS4) address the issue of limited thread counts? I’ve moved to Windows 7 and it works well, but would like to move back to Windows 10 (UAudio doesn’t officially support thunderbolt on Windows 7).

Feb 2018 has passed. Can anyone confirm that this is fixed and there is no limit to the number of cores on a CPU?

The first link is about low latency WASAPI, it is irrelevant as we are using ASIO that has lower latency anyway.
The second link is about the memory management that is poorly in the 1709 we hopefully al are running.
This is fixed in the new upcoming win10 release, and very well may be the course of audio interruptions.
This has nothing to do with the limited MMCSS threads that multi-core cpus can handle.
So nothing really indicates that this will ever change, at least MS have not given any statements about it, so this is pure speculation.
So currently there is

  1. MMCSS limit (multi-core dependent)
  2. FLS limit (plugins fail to load)
  3. Memory management latency issue (should be fixed in the next upcoming “big” windows10 update

I know that #1 is not a problem in Windows 7. Are #2 and #3?

2 yes, 3 no

Microsofts Developer Pete has pointed this:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/steinberg-cubase-nuendo/1169221-mmcss-windows-8-10-a.html

In Windows 10, the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service was moved from user-mode to kernel-mode, to reduce overhead and improve integration with the kernel thread scheduler.

As a side effect, a per-process limitation of 32 registered threads was introduced. Applications which register a large number of threads in a single process may see MMCSS registration fail in Windows 10, in circumstances where it succeeded in Windows Vista through Windows 8.1.

We are looking at how to address this.

In general, Microsoft recommends the following for developers:

  • Prefer using the Windows Real-Time Work Queue API Real-Time Work Queue API (Windows) over manually maintaining a set of dedicated threads.
  • Be prepared for MMCSS registration to fail, since MMCSS resources will vary from system to system, and from even from time to time, depending on what other applications on the system are doing.

but Pete linked this Text from password protected Forum (Windows Insiders Developers ), i cannot see in.

Reading this thread has made me excited - perhaps it is possible for me to get a decent performance from cubase using my machine - currently im experiencing incredibly poor stability, with audio drop outs, freezing and crashes - happens so much that I’m getting sick of using cubase.

Specs below- if anyone can advise on what I need to do to get a stable system I’ll PayPal them a cash reward (yes I’m serious)

https://ibb.co/kT66Bx

@venkmon, almost the same as my machine.
I observed that some installations of other programms can disturb Cubase. Then I observed that Cubase wworks different after updates. I suppose that you can get better performance if you reinstall whole system and don’t install any other programs after Cubase (except Steinberg products). I mean keep you machine clear as possible.

P.S. If you drive a car, you drive only a car and cannot take off in space; when you’ll “drive” a space ship, you won’t land on a street (I hope) :wink:

Install WIn7 64 let it update once, then install audio software and keep it away from the net afterwards.I am somewhat serious! Although win 10 can run smoothly for some, it is a little bit like Russian roulette. And even if you had a perfect system, the next win10 update might break it.

Oh and your system is not affected by the bug in this thread.

Is there anyone that have tried the new Windows for Workstations Ultimate Performance thing with your daw? If so Is there any performance increase in any way? Is it worth to make a new installation u think.

Basically the Hypertrading must be Off in the Bios, that will let you go with a steady comp. This will also advance into a buffer you can set below <128 Samples and will be steady. The rest is … Can my computer handle it ? Well i have my latency set for 8ms-10ms and that is good enough for me.
Lucky the Soundblaster lets me adjust in mS instead of buffer, so it is quite exact.

Thanks. Is it possible to roll back to 7 from 10? I would assume not as I’ve never held a licence for 7.

Also, how do you keep plugins updated if pc isn’t on the net?

I keep getting getting real-time peak spikes on the cpu meter too - would this be because my samples are on my D: drive, which is a normal spinner and cubase is installed on C: which is an SSD?

Such a headache all of this

1 No not afaik, but it can be bought cheap
2 I download them on another machine or you can disable windows update on win 7 (not on 10)
3 No my samples are on a normal HD too.

If you make a backup image of 10, you can install win7 64 pro and if I remember correctly it will work for 30 days without a key. Your win 10 key might work but I am not sure.
What is your audio card/device?

Exactly. If you are serious about music production Win 7 is still the way to go. Its just a lot more stable.

Well I wish Id found this thread before buying an 18 core i9 computer which will only run Windows 10 and crackles like a panful of bacon. Terrific. 40% CPU and pops every few seconds. Tried everything and nothing fixes it. Is there any hope that either Steinberg or Microsoft will resolve this?

Thanks for the advise.

Just a crappy focusrite 2i2

That really sucks - I feel your pain. At the end of the day, it’s Steinberg who need to sort this, not Microsoft.

Just for the record for anyone else looking for big fast multicore solution that really works, the other rig I have runs a Xeon 14 core 2673v3 and windows 7 and it is flawless. 25% cpu on a huge template 1700 tracks with VSL EP and CB9 running on the same machine. What an idiot I am! Should have stuck with that.

I think Steinberg should really think about putting this warning in the tech requirements as more and more W10 i9 multicore computers wont run CB. Currently their tech requirements are simply not true.

Is it microsoft or Steinberg that have to do something about this multicore system thing?
I Think this is redicilous that we have such problem. Invest in an expensive computer cus we want a better daw, and then it shows that there is limits in the software/OS that make the daw worse instead. If it is MS problem then i cant understand how it was better in win 7 since it is not new. This new win 10 should be far better, at least better for us who upgraded everything and had the hope of it been better than the older OS. IF its Steinbergs problem i also dont understand why it was better in win 7. Im not a technical guy but when people say it has something with mmcss to do then i gyess its MS to blame…or am i wrong?