workflow for guitar players that use VST Amp Modelers

I am new to Cubase. I have used daw software going all the way back to Cool Edit Pro (who remembers that one?). Was a Sonar user, then switched to Reaper. I also have worked with Studio One.

So far Cubase is nice. There are a few things about it that I am having to get used to but one of the biggest is the workflow doesn’t seem overly friendly for guitar players that use VST Amp Modelers to track with. In Reaper and Studio one I can easily route any tracks output as a input for a new track. This makes bouncing down in realtime very quick and easy, which when you get a lot of guitar sims up and running in a project is a handy way of cleaning them up and saving CPU.

I never use FREEZE or anything similar that does a faster than real time render/bounce. I have been hozed too many times by the frozen track containing drop outs and other artifacts.

So question, does anyone else run into this issue and what workflow do they use if any to improve this? Thanks.

Cubase is great too use with Vst amp modlers.

The thing you are missing is how cubase routs audio.

Cubase has 2 mixers.
-vst mixer wich is what you see in your project window.
-mixer wich is the inputs and outputs you setup with your audio interface.

So say you want that reaper/studio one workflow of rendering, all you have to do, is use the mixer outputs, wich you route your vst mixer (vst modler) tracks too, as inputs for the new vst mixertracks. You can see outputs as a input option on a vst mixer channel. That is the mixer outputs. Just make shure to make alot of output options when you setup your audio interface. It will make multi rendering alot more easy and time saving.

Now for tracking you have the option of printing the plugin to the vst mixer, by having it as a insert on a mixer input.
You can just monitor the plugin by having it as a insert in the vst mixer.
You can print the plugin by bouncing/tracking the mixer output, wich the vst mixer channel is routed too.

Thing too keep in mind is that a mono channel that is routed to a stereo channel will become stereo when you render, so it is handy to have some mono channels on the mixer, to deal with that stuff. Classic misstake is having all tracks routed to stereo out main and fluff it with mastering plugins, and then wonder why your mono tracks become stereo and sound like shit, when you want to bounce single channels to save cpu. You can avoid that misstake by having more outputs, so you can send tracks too render on clean outputs and render mono to mono and stereo to stereo.

Hope you see some cool routing options with this information.

Thanks for this! I’m not completely clear on the details yet but I will review and see if I can make this work in my current project.

Happy to help.

In the vst mixer project window, you can setup the channels with alternative outputs (Direct routing) in the channel inspector. This way you are set for quick rendering when needed. You can also use sends if you want the option of sending the signal pre fader. There are several options. But you need to send the signal to a mixer output and track that output as input in the vst mixer, if you want to do it like studio one/reaper. So too use cubase proprly, you need to setup more then a stereo track output in the interface setup (mixer).

It is a bit heavy to explain it in a simple matter.
If you are used to audio routing on analog consoles, cubase works just the same way.
If you want a “inline signal” (vst mixer) to be rerecorded to a new track. You will have to route that signal through the mixer and in too a new channel.

I think you will get a major :bulb: once you figure out the routing, and understand alot better why cubase has this and that options in vst mixer/mixer.

Higly recommend you use some spare time and read the whole manual. There is alot of nice functions to improve and customize workflow.

Ok after some research I don’t think we are talking about the same thing.

What does work and is the closest thing to Reaper/Studio One/Ableton/BitWig is the following.

  1. Create new project.
  2. Add stereo audio track named Guitar 1.
  3. Add Amplitube as VST insert on Guitar 1 audio track.
  4. Set input to Guitar 1 as my audio interface input that I plug my guitar/DI box into.
  5. Record guitar audio to Guitar 1 track while monitoring the plugins inserts so I can hear Amplitube while recording my guitar.
  6. Add a Group to the project called Group Bounce.
  7. Set Input and Output routing of Group Bounce to blanks (remove all routing).
  8. Add stereo audio track and name it G Bounce 1.
  9. Set G bounce 1 routing as follows: input is Group Bounce and output is Stereo Out (main project outs).
  10. Set audio track Guitar 1 routing output to Group Bounce.
  11. Set G Bounce 1 record enable and then press transport record. This will record the audio from Guitar 1 to G Bounce 1.
  12. Reset audio track Guitar 1 routing output to Stereo Outs.
  13. Now I can copy the G Bounce 1 audio to another track and process with effects etc during the mixing phase. I can also disable the original Guitar 1 track and regain the CPU from step 3 (Amplitube VST plugin).

If you have a better/faster way that accomplishes this real time bounce, please let me know. I found this workflow in another post.

Thanks.

This part I don’t follow. Also, the outputs are not showing up as input options on my vst mixer audio tracks. Only GROUP channels that I create in the project and also the actual audio interface physical inputs. No other input options are available for audio tracks.

added photo.

This is my input options in the vst mixer.
You can see that I have a tonn off outputs from mixer I can select as inputs to the vst mixer.

Now If I set my vst mixer track wich I want to render real time To any of those outputs. I casn select that as input for the new track, and hit record. Simple as that.

Have you configured your outputs in audio connections? Are you using pro or simpler version of Cubase?

I have 9.5 pro. How do you have so many input options? Are those all part of your audio interface? I have never had to configure audio connection outputs in a daw, as they are already setup to my audio interface outputs.

I have a 32 input output interface connected to my Console. Set it up as 32 mono and 25+++ stereo options (Some times I just pair channel 9 and 17, easier to do that then re routing inputs on the HW console).

In Cubase you need to set up your interface. It dosent do it for you. You only get basic stereo track if you dont set up your interface output.
Wich means exporting mono tracks and stereo tracks at same time is no go, if you want to keep them mono/stereo.

Set up your outputs. You can make several out of only a few physical outputs. It is the only way, you are going to get propper use of cubase.

Added a photo of what you want to do. Easy as butter :wink:

This still seems like an odd work around. Not sure why Cubase has to use your physical outputs where all other daws allow internal routing of their built in software mixer. Also this wouldn’t work if my audio interface only has one stereo output, which is what I have had in the past. So you are back to square one.

Also, your photo just shows your main project window, not sure what I am supposed to be looking for in it?

You can setup your stereo output as, mono outputs and use those two to ad extra channels.

added photo off routing. I use the sends pre fader. But many ways to do it. Not using input channels from mixer, only output channels. To go out by interface, you would need to route to input channels on the interface mixer.

Try it. The option is there for this workflow. Cubase is more complex then most other daws. Many users and many workflows to please.

Cubase has the same issue that Pro Tools and Logic have. They are older apps and their software routing is based on older paradigm. The newer applications have better internal routing. The older apps require you to use Group/Aux/Bus channels to solve this issue. You have suggested another way, but it causes its own set of issues. The solution is for Cubase to upgrade their internal routing to match what is available in the marketplace now. Same goes for Logic and Pro Tools.

I recommend you always use render to print tracks with amp modelers because most of them only use full oversampling during a offline render.

Haha! :smiley: I guess Cubase follows the therm “if it aint broken, dont try and fix it”

Well I have given you a way too get it done. Personaly, I just bounce and import in to project on a new track, use a mono channel for mono tracks and a stereo for stereo. It is fast (well maby not depending on dsp used), and works. Think that is the way 99% of us do it. So probly why it havent bin addressed at all.

I have to be honest, I did not read this post, I only skimmed it (Im so used to users that complain, when they have not even open the manual).

So let me be clear. Cubase offers the same internal routing as almost every daw that is out there.

The signals in my show and tell, never left the daw. No da or ad was used.
Caus you dont have to asign physical outputs to the mixer outputs you set up.
They will route internal without physical outputs. So here we have a major miss understanding going on.
Bonus of assigning your physical outputs to the outputs, is just options and asio information. But not needed for internal routing.

Thats also why I laughed at your litle rant. Caus I thought that hitting, -studio, -audio connection, and make a few render outputs, was too much work for you. Seriously setting up the mixer is basic and needed for cubase to work at full power. Cubase/Nuendo are not plug and play daws, they are advanced daws for pro use.

It is simple, if you dont make the mixer the way you want it for internal routing in the daw. You have no right to complain about missing options. You are simply not using the options. If you read the get started part of the manual, you would notice the importance of setting up the mixer :wink:

Now make some mixer channels and make the audio routing inside of cubase work as it is supposed too. You dont need to assign physical outputs for the channels, but you do need the channels for your wanted workflow. You can not complain and give up, before you have setup the daw. It clearly does not work the way you describe it in your post. That is wrong. Look more on the physical output as a option of monitoring in on the action. Not needed for the action (if that makes sence).

And if you wonder why cubase has 2 mixers, it is for monitoring in on the action with internal routings, prevent unwanted feedback loops and simply offer more options integrating outboard with the daw. Cubase and Nuendo, are top of the mill daws. For a good reason.

When you get your head around this. You will give yourself a facepalm. I can prommise you that :smiley:

You are so close, too your wanted workflow solution, but you fail too see it, caus you keep comparing different daws and draw wrong conclutions based on experience. My experience wich go all way back to the early 90s tells me that I must read the manual. Then I start asking for tips and I keep a open mind. You also have a tonn of macros and quick keys you can make too get your rendering done easy. You just have to take the time and learn it and set it all up.

I understand your suggestion and appreciate it. I’m not ranting. I’m not upset. I’m just stating the fact that routing in other DAWs is much easier and quicker. You can type up another long post and its not going to change my mind as I have already A/B your method to my current workflow. I think this thread is pretty much done. Thanks again.

My post are only long caus my english is not good. Lol.

Well you have skipped step 2 after selecting your audio interface. That will have some impact on the experience. :slight_smile:

Cubase is not all about surface use, you need to bridge and macro to make things happend quickly. So it does requier abit more effort learning the software.
Once you master it. Your statment “routing in other DAWs is much easier and quicker” is just false. I can ninja just as quickly and quicker as any other senior daw user, using what ever daw. It is just about taking the time and learning it and picking the daw that can take the best use of your Studio.

So I dont blame the software, if im not putting in the effort to learn it. That just makes me clueles of how the software works.

Hope you find a solution that works for you :slight_smile:

I’m not sure what your investment is in Cubase (I personally own multiple DAWs and constantly evaluate), but your posts are now borderline trolling. Let’s call it a day and agree to disagree. Thanks.