Wrong notes in MIDI Export

I encountered a curious problem - Dorico makes several mistakes - wrong notes - in a midi export of my. project. The first picture shows the original, a repeated Eb major chord (which plays back correctly), and the second pic is how Dorico exports the MIDI. I wonder what’s going on and what I should do to prevent this from happening in the future. I’d like to send a sample project with this problem to the tech support - to whom should I address it?
right notes
wrong notes

“Tech support” checks here. Can you create a Diagnostic report (from the Help menu) and post it here to give them a head start when they check in?

You might post the Dorico file here too (or an illustrative excerpt of it) in case that helps them diagnose the problem.

The zip of the diagnostics file is too large to be posted here. But I made a three-bar sample project. In it, the first flow is the original. The second flow is the MIDI export from the original imported back to Dorico, and it shows the wrong notes in the MIDI file, also included below.
midi export problem 3 bars - flow 1.mid (471 Bytes)

midi export problem 3 bars.dorico.zip (571.5 KB)

How did you input these pitches in the first place? They are not the pitches they appear to be! For example, the middle note in the second triad in the first bar is notated as “E natural” (kind of, anyway), but in fact its pitch is 692/11 internally – you can see that if you look in the Key Editor, it’s displayed as a D there rather than an E.

The question is: what are you trying to achieve with these non-12-EDO pitches?

OK, I can see in the key editor that there is microtonal information in the notes, and what is a repeated note in the notation is not so in the key editor. To be precise, the middle note of the second triad is not notated as an E natural but as an E flat, but indeed it’s a D in the key editor - as it is in the exported MIDI file. In the key editor it says “E (micro 4”). Where can I view that numerical value you cite and what does 692/11 mean? Is this the VST tuning parameter value for the note? But the bar, when played in Dorico using a non-microtonal synth in 12-equal plays back correcrly, ie. repeated C minor triads in the first bar. So a VST instrument, even if it does not read the VST tuning parameter, reads the notes as in the notation, not as in the key editor. What’s the explanation for this?
As to why there is unnecessary microtuning data in the notes in the first place - this is from a larger player/instrument setup in which some of the staves are in a microtonal tonality system while some,. like these synth and bass parts, are not. I often copypaste a microtonally notated part to a 12edo staff and then edit the notes to fit a synth tuned microtonally with a proprieatery method, or MTS, or .scl or .tun files (this is necessary because Dorico’s VST3 tuning can’t be transferred via MIDI to a DAW nor exported to a MIDI file, and there are practically no synthesizers or software instruments that support it, anyway). However, in this case I never wrote those chords in microtonal notation to a part in a microtonal Tonality System, so the only explanation for the unwanted microtuning data is that I have at some point accidentally had the staff on the microtonal Tonality System, and have then switched it to 12edo which is should be. However, I still don’t understand why Dorico’s playback in 12edo, with a synth that does not respond to VST3 tuning, is what’s notated while the actual MIDI note is different.

PS. Is there a way to correct all the pitches that “are not what they appear to be”? This kind of cleaning up takes a lot of valuable time in my workflow. The Filter is of very limited use for notes in non-12 Tonality Systems.

I’ve been thinking about this on and off but I can’t think of a way to reset the pitches of these notes to the nearest 12-EDO pitches. We’ve encountered this issue before, that because Dorico stores the precise pitch of every note in the project in absolute terms, when a note is copied and pasted, we don’t rewrite the pitch to the properties of the prevailing tonality system. This would have its own problems, as it could cause the intervallic relationship between the notes to change (as indeed we find here with the notes ending up snapping to different pitches when exported to MIDI).

For the time being I’m not sure there’s much better option than rewriting the affected passage, which I know isn’t ideal.

Thank you! Complete rewriting is not necessary - selecting the offending notes - those that look like E flats in the score but aren’t - and pressing ‘Flat’ corrects them. However, it is not possible to select or deselect multiple microtonally altered notes with the Filter settings, for the reasons you mention. Which brings us back to a wish I’ve made before. Could you include this option in the Filter selection menu:: Select/Deselect All the notes on the same position on the staff (ie. on the bottom line, between the two top lines etc.). Even if it wouldn’t select specific (microtonal or 12edo) pitches, it would greatly facilitate editing notes that are copied from a different Tonality System, or whose original microtuning is still there after the Tonality system has been changed.

Yes, selecting notes by staff position would be a good idea. I have this idea written down and will try to get to it when I can.

2 Likes

In Dorico 5, the microtonal inflections are not shown on the notes themselves in the Key Editor any more but as numerical values on the Note line in the bottom. This makes it impossible to spot them in the Key Editor, so the required cleaning up (after a Tonality System change, as well as a copypaste from a different Tonality System) is even more tedious than before. It’s unfortunate that the microtuning values stay in the notes even when they’re copypasted to a 12edo staff. The microtonal accidentals are gone, as they should be, but Dorico still plays (and midi-exports) re-tuned notes. A simple command for selected notes would be very welcome: ‘Delete all microtuning’. Now, I can do that by selecting all the notes and pressing Natural but I want to keep 12 midi notes per octave, ie. sharps/flats.

There’s no difference (that I can think of, anyway) in the way the Key Editor displays pitches between Dorico 4 and Dorico 5, so I believe you’re mistaken about that.

As I mentioned in one of my previous replies, we know that it would be helpful to be able to “conform” pitches to the prevailing tonality system. This is something we would like to implement in future.

The Key Editor in Dorico 4 shows the re-tuned notes with ‘micro’ marked on each note as shown in the picture. Dorico 5 does not (unless it’s a setting that can be turned on/off?).
micros key editor