XML export (p.28)

Dear team,
I have not read any post about the new xml export behavior.

I want to thank you sooooo much for this, it’s described quite briefly p.28 but could bring so much benefit to many of us, and especially to me!
And greetings for your magnificent work on the rest of the update!

The XML improvements were perfectly timed for me. Dorico’s export is now sufficiently comprehensive to go back and forth usefully. 3.1 is my favourite update yet!

I need to export a basic drum (percussion in general) and bring it in to Logic, because I need to blend with audio files. First, you can’t import audio files into Dorico, right? Second, all the notes end up on the same staff link. This is the xml for two voices. They should be on different lines, but they have both been assigned to B octave 4. How do I force Dorico to out put a percussion .xml with notes on the correct pitches, like, hi-hat is on E, not B, and kick drum is on A, not B? Thanks for any help! Midi does the same thing.
VOICE 1:


B
4

1
1
eighth
up
1
begin

AND NOW VOICE 2


B
4

1
2
eighth
down
1
begin

Welcome to the forum, janDol. Unfortunately in Dorico 3.1, there is no proper support for export of percussion kits, but this is definitely something we will be working on for our next major release.

Hi Daniel, I am going to really try and use Dorico for the sounds, and not have to export, but there is a disconnect between what I want to notate and what I want to hear. I have gone through your info, but maybe you can help. I want the Latin Percussion kit that Dorico provides in my unpitched percussion drum set. The default instruments provided have, for example a guiro, but only one, not a long and a short, which doesn’t help. Since you can’t seem to acmes the Latin Percussion when setting up a player (OR CAN YOU?) I went into play mode. In play mode, I selected Drum&Perc and then Latin Percussion, double clicked. Then I went back to write mode and attempted to add the instruments I wanted. It is as if nothing had changed here. HOWEVER, if I do that same thing to, say, a flute track, I get the percussion sounds using various notes. I could fake it by putting in a drum staff, but I would need to remap the notes. It would be SO easy if the unhitched percussion kit accepted the Latin Percussion kit, because then I could just drag the instruments around to the desired staff lines, which is so clever of your software, love it. Just, can it also work on other percussion kits?

Is there a way to make YOUR Latin Percussion instruments show up on the unhitched percussion drum kit I and not finding? I have looked at many videos. Thanks!

Also, sorry for the typos, that was supposed to be could not “access” the Latin Percussion sounds from the unpitched percussion track in write mode, even though it was selected in play mode for that channel/track. Also, unhitched should read unpitched. Finally, if I do need to remap the notes on the flute track to make it look right, which technique should I be looking up? It is not an outside instrument, it is your instrument, so not sure.

Sorry for the delay in coming back to you. I’ve been in touch with my colleagues in Hamburg trying to find out whether we have a good source of truth for what the actual mapping is for the Latin Percussion kit. We don’t have a default percussion map for that patch because we don’t have a list of which sound is produced by which MIDI note, and it doesn’t appear that such a list actually exists anywhere within Steinberg; the various drum kits in the HALion Sonic SE content are licensed from Yamaha, and it appears that the original mappings for those kits are somewhat lost to the mists of time.

So I’m afraid you will have to create your own percussion map if you want to use the Latin Percussion kit. The basic job is to open the HSSE3 window and note down the sound produced by each key. HALion Sonic SE 3 uses the convention that middle C, MIDI note 60, is known as C3. The lowest mapped note in the Latin Percussion kit is note 24 (C0), and the highest note is note 96 (C6). My sense is that most of the notes produce the same sounds as the existing Yamaha XG kit, with only the notes in the top two octaves including a significant number of different sounds.

You could therefore start in Play > Percussion Maps by basinc a new percussion map on the existing Yamaha XG map, then modify the instruments and playing techniques between notes 72 and notes 96.

Once you’ve got a workable percussion map, you can create your own percussion kit using the Latin instruments you’ve mapped in the percussion map, and the final step to hook them up together is to ensure that you assign your new Latin Percussion percussion map in the Endpoint Setup dialog.

This manual for a Yamaha expansion board for percussion might help. There are a huge number of drum maps listed (see page 26 and 41) including “Afro Cuban”, “Brazil,” and several variants of those. If you can identify some the basic sounds which correspond to these maps, they might help to fill in all the details.

https://soundprogramming.net/manuals/Yamaha_PLG150-DR_and_PLG150-PC_Manual.pdf

And along with Rob’s post above, another take…

Some other Yamaha kits, with MIDI notes and associated sounds, are listed in this manual (scroll to following page too):-
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/340100/Yamaha-Portable-Grand-Dgx-200.html?page=88#manual

At least it gives some instrument ‘names’ that could be of use.

Thanks for all the info. I will give it a try. Meanwhile, has anyone experienced that the kick drum in the basic kit produces the wrong sound? It sounds like a rim hit or something. The percussion map looks fine.
Thanks!

Also, when you are in the drum set in Setup mode, and look at the instruments you have available, you can’t get the latin percussion set to show up. Is that correct? Even if I set the instrument to Latin Percussion in play, those instruments do not show up in Setup mode as items you can drag around on the staff lines. Thanks.

There’s no one-to-one correlation between the instruments in a percussion patch and the instruments you can create in Setup mode, though you do have to make that correlation when you define the actual percussion map, since each note in the percussion map has to be mapped to a combination of Dorico instrument and playing technique. When you create a new percussion kit in Setup mode, you can add any unpitched percussion instrument you like: surdo, guiro, congas, bongos, cuicas, bongo bells, cowbells, pandeiro etc. are all there in the instrument picker, so you should find you can easily set up a percussion kit with the instruments you are looking for.

So, I have a consistent problem, and I am sure the map is right and the setup is right. I use it so often. It is the kick drum. The sounds is not coming out right. May I submit this very simple Dorico file to you and have you confirm I am not crazy here? If the percussion map is right, I do not see how to trick it into playing the sound of a kick drum.

Maybe I can add a MyKickDrum sound and try to assign it the kick drum. But it still seems like the kick drum should work no matter what.
Thanks!
MidTerm_1.dorico.zip (501 KB)

Your project plays back exactly as I’d expect. Do you hear the expected sound for the kick drum when you click on it?

I think I must be missing something. I added “MyKickDrum” and MyKickDrumLow to both the GM and the Yamaha Percussion Map. They do not appear in the list in Setup mode. What else do I need to do?

Also, no, when I click on the note I get a click sound. Is there a way to hear the sound when selecting the instrument, or do you just have to just pick the instrument, add a note, and then see how it sounds? Of course, there is that keyboard but the instrument names are not on the keyboard anywhere. That would be so helpful. Is there another way to see names and preview sounds?

When you click on the kick drum note, the bottom space, what sound do you hear?

I hear a kick drum, the same sound you hear if you click the C two octaves below middle C in the HSSE window.

What about the above questions? They would set me on my way. Specifically:
I added “MyKickDrum” and MyKickDrumLow to both the GM and the Yamaha Percussion Map. They do not appear in the list in Setup mode. What else do I need to do? I looked at the Endpoint Setup. I see Yamaha for the Drum Set, Channel 1. I look at the Percussion Map. I see my custom drum sounds, MyKick and MyLowKick. I pressed the blue button. What if that is off? It was off before. Didn’t make a difference, still can’t see my MyLowKick or MyKick. If you add a drum sound to that Yamaha Map, how do you make it show up in Setup Mode, to add that, then drag around on the staves?

When you defined “MyKickDrumLow” you’re just supplying a name: you still need to map that on to a “real” Dorico instrument, which you do by choosing the instrument in the Percussion Maps dialog for the note you’ve assigned to “MyKickDrumLow”. That’s the instrument you then have to add to your percussion kit in Setup mode, which will presumably be “Kick drum (low)”, or whatever instrument you chose to make the mapping for in your percussion map.

So, this is really weird. I press the green diamond in “play” that is the kick drum. At the same time, I have the Keyboard up by pressing the little keyboard icon for that instrument. I see what key is being pressed. It makes a click, like a drumstick hitting the rim. When I press the key on the keyboard directly, I get a DIFFERENT sound, the kick drum sound I want! Please try this with the file I gave you. I have a mapping problem somewhere!

As for the “choosing the instrument” in the percussion map, I did do that. I assigned it to Kick Drum (low). When would you actually see that assigned name, but for in the Percussion map? Anyway, I see that there is some internal problem. Please try that file again and see if you get a different sound when pressing the kick drum diamond versus pressing the keyboard. How could that happen? Thanks!!!

Is it perhaps that when you click the key in the plug-in window directly, you’re hearing the note at a different dynamic? Where you click the key vertically affects the dynamic you hear. If you click right at the bottom of the key, you hear the loudest dynamic. You don’t have any dynamics in your project, which means you’ll be hearing something like mf by default. Try clicking the key vertically in the middle, or try adding an ff dynamic to the project.

You don’t see the name you have assigned in the percussion map anywhere except in the percussion map. The name is there to help you correlate back to the original documentation for the drum patch you’re writing a mapping for.