Yamaha N12 and Cubase 4.5.2 on Windows 10

Hey all, I just resurrected my Yamaha N12 from storage and want to get it up and running on a new Windows 10 PC. Previously ( years ago ) had everything running smoothly on a Windows XP box with Cubase 4.5.2.

I’ve read through lots of related posts and all the documentation on the Yamaha site and as far as I can tell it is possible to get it all this working together again ie. Cubase 4.5.2 on Windows 10 connected to Yamaha N12 mixer.

Looks like the only shortfall I may face is detailed here :

"In case you want to use AI Functions with Steinberg Cubase or Nuendo, you would need following version.

  • Cubase 5.0.x, 5.5.x, 6.0.x, 6.5.x, 7.0.x"

As I only have Cubase 4.5.2, looks like all I’m going to miss out on is the ‘AI functions’ but I have to be honest, it’s been so long since I messed around with all this stuff, I’m not exactly sure what that means?! Can someone explain exactly what I’m going to lose? As I understand it once I’ve upgraded the firmware on the N12 I can’t go back so just want to be clear what I’m doing.

The quote above came from here : https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/tools_for_n_win64bit_latest.html

Cubase AI functions take care of everything, you can just sit and watch while the music is created.

…no sorry, couldn’t resist :slight_smile:

I guess they are referring to the Cubase AI version. I found a review saying “You get full 5.1 surround facilities (although Cubase AI 4 doesn’t support this, so you’ll have to upgrade to take advantage of these features)”.

But I think you can forget the “AI” thing, I guess the same goes for all Cubase versions. There might have been some minor changes between Cubase 4.5.2 and 10.5 so I guess there are some features that you can’t use unless you upgrade. :laughing:

:smiley: Ironically, reading AI as ‘Artificial Intelligence’, it might not be long before this is the case ! :wink:

…but yes, I did think that about Cubase AI. Pretty sure my hardware came with Cubase AI, but later I bought the full version. I wondered if the integration might mean things like, pressing the rec button on the N12 arms the track in Cubase? Also installing Yamaha N12 extensions presents a list of project templates that ‘just work’ out of the box. Maybe losing the AI Functions means I have to set all these up manually? I really don’t know. As you suggest, I can probably just forget about it, after all, I’m not actually running Cubase AI on the XP box and it’s working great, but then I am still using the AI Driver and mLAN Tools etc. so this is confusing me also. If I could downgrade the N12 firmware none of this would be an issue, I would just mess around with it and figure it out, but this a one way street. From the previously provided link…

" After updating the n8/n12 firmware, the n8/n12 will not be able to be used with the n Driver, AI Driver or mLAN Driver/mLAN Tools."

Up until last year I was running an n12. Great sounding interface. It works fine with Cubase. I used it with Cubase 9 or 9.5 I think. You need to do all the firmware upgrades and load the templates into Cubase. All the transport functions should work as well as markers and metronome. Other things as well but I can’t remember. There is also presets for the compression. I remember I would sometimes use hardware mixing to add the n12 reverb and use the compression as it was to my ears much smoother than the stock Cubase plugins. I was using with the full pro Cubase version. I never used the AI version that came with it.

Thanks mkok. Really appreciate you taking the time to reply. I’ve done quite a bit more reading since my original post and I’m pretty confident it’s going to work, although I’m still not 100% sure, so your post is very reassuring. I fired up the old system yesterday and had a good play around with it and it all started coming back to me. I bought the N12 originally for the simplicity of it’s workflow. I just opened up a Cubase Template for the N12, armed the tracks I wanted to record by pressing the REC buttons on the mixer, and voila, everything just worked. I believe these Cubase Templates for the N12 are called Cubase Extensions and they should install with the latest version of Tools for Windows 10, at least I hope they do ! . Aside from the transport controls, I think is really the only ‘integration’ feature I’m concerned about. Can you remember if this worked on your setup?

I still use my N12 with W10 and Cubase 10.5 (starting with Cubase back in the N12 year of purchase).
Still great sounding interface to my ears and for homerecordings a fine mixer and possibilities. The switchable choice of 3 pairs of monitorspeakers is very welcome. Still perfect integration within the latest Cubase. Also luckily W10 drivers still available.
You always could buy the latest Cubase Elements f.e.

@ca-booter. That’s very encouraging. It is a lovely piece of kit the N12 - happy to hear yours is still going strong. I’m just waiting for my new FW card to arrive now and then I’ll move forward with the migration. Thanks very much for your input.

I still have an older FW card inside my PC, but surely has the T.i. chip on it, very important for the N12.
I know W10 officially does not support FW anymore, but everything still works great so I am very happy.
I did have an issue a few years ago while buying an extra Graphics card(Nvidia) for my 3th screen. The drivers for the Nvidia card interfered with my FW card. So I swopped that one for a very simple Radeon Card and since then the N12 runs just fine.

Yes the integration worked absolutely fine on mine too with win 10. My m/b had a Texas Instruments f/w chip. Sort of wish I’d kept it as I still have that pc as well as my i9 so could have had two studios.

@ca-booter Yes I’m expecting a few headaches getting everything up and running but fingers crossed. Spent forever researching the various FW chip sets required for the N12. I couldn’t find a suitable one that exactly matched the specifications in the Yamaha documentation but found a thread on the soundonsound forum that recommended the xio2213b chip set, so I took a gamble and ordered one of those. Fingers crossed again ! When it arrives from China in about three years time I’ll fire it up and report back.

@mkok That sounds very positive indeed. Thanks for the update. Two studios? Really?! :wink:

@OP, what edition of Cubase 4 do you have (LE/AI/Essential/Studio/Pro) and did you register it on MySteinberg? I’m not sure, but I think if you got Cubase 4 AI with the N12, you may be eligible for a free upgrade to the latest Cubase AI 10.5. Steinberg did a promotion a while back to get everyone off the old versions, but I can’t remember the details – it may have been for only a limited time. Worst case scenario, if you still have AI you can upgrade it to Elements 10.5 with the current offer for a mere 29 schekels.

Regarding the Firewire card, much of the information on the internet is old and the “TI chip only” (in my experience) no longer holds true, for example I’m using a card with a PCIe VIA LSI FW643 chip working perfectly with a MOTU 828mkII interface on Windows 10 x64 with no need for the legacy driver.

@MrSoundman Great bit of info ! Thank you so much. I actually have the full boxed version of Cubase 4 ( doesn’t say Pro or Studio or anything else on the box ), but I also have a copy of Cubase LE 4 registered with Steinberg and I’ve also just found an old unopened Cubase AI4 CD that obviously came with my N12. I guess the question now is can I still install it and activate it and get the free upgrade? I can’t find a card with an activation code written on it anywhere in the paperwork or the box - there’s a 7-digit code on the CD but not sure that’s it. Will try it later. All this soft e-licenser, USB e-licenser, eLCC stuff confuses the hell out of me. I’ve contacted Steinberg to see if the upgrade offer is still on. Thanks for the info regarding the FW chip also - sounds like I probably didn’t need to go to all the trouble I did to track down a suitable card. So after all that I just hope the one I’ve ordered turns up, and works !

In that case (assuming you have an activated license for it on a USB eLicenser), your best bet would be to avail of the current offer (until July 28) of updating your Cubase 4 to Cubase Pro 10.5, which runs perfectly on Windows 10 and is a huge jump from Cubase 4 (back then, it didn’t have the “Pro” tag).

I would look at it like this: you already have a sizeable investment in Cubase 4 and there’s an opportunity to bring it up to date at 40% off. There’s a Presales area of the forum over here where you can ask about registering your products on MySteinberg and find out more about the offer.

Wonderful ! Had no idea they had this offer on - thanks again MrSoundman for bringing this to my attention. Sad as it may sound, I may not be able to afford it before the offer expires, so I shall still try to get the 10.5 AI upgrade if I can. I discovered earlier I have an AI4 license activated on the old XP machine and stored in a Soft e-licenser. I tried to register it against my Steinberg account but got a message saying it was already registered to another user. Also tried to drag it to my USB dongle but that failed with a message about my software being too old. Installed the latest eLCC for XP but that still didn’t work. Nothing is easy ! :frowning: I’ve started a separate thread about the licensing issue. Now - which of those guitars am I going to sell so I can buy the full 10.5 upgrade?

@MrSoundman Just wanted to say thanks again. I went for the update offer in the end as per your suggestion and the license update all went very smoothly.

@razorpig Great to hear, and welcome to the brave new world of Cubase 10 (and Windows 10!). I hope none of your guitars needed to get sold off :slight_smile:

Nope - all guitars still with their rightful owner :wink:

As of recently, I was running a n12. Incredible sounding interface. It works fine with Cubase. I utilized it with Cubase 9 or 9.5 I think. You have to do all the firmware overhauls and burden the layouts into Cubase. All the vehicle capacities should fill in just as markers and metronome. Different things too however I can’t recall. There are additionally presets for the pressure. I recollect that I would in some cases use equipment blending to include the n12 reverb and utilize the pressure as it was to my ears much smoother than the stock Cubase modules. I was utilizing the full supportive of Cubase variant. I never utilized the AI form that accompanied it.

Ah yes the reverb is really good. I would send my vocal tracks back out to the n12 to add reverb as it was so much smoother with a nice sparkle. I also never used my AI version

Hello, I am buying a new pc I used to work with a firewire card on my old pc (old like 13 years old), cubase 9.5, my N12 and windows 7, is there a chance of the firewire card not working properly withe a new motherboard? How does the N12 work with a pc thunderbolt card and a firewire to Thunderbolt converter? I ordered a new firewite card with TI chip to be safe but what are your thoughts?