Sysex Editor doesn’t work as expected
Delayed sending of multiple sysex data.
I have two sysex commands in a midi track.
The first command loads a saved registration file on my Yamaha GENOS keyboard. The second line activates the first of ten possible registration switches. Color changes from blue to red.
The figure shows the distance of the single switch points:
The problem: The second switching point is executed about a whole beat later. (0002.1.1.x)
The picture shows the white song cursor at the point where my switch jumps from blue to red.
First, try to extend the track event, there may be a problem with the size of the event when reading a MIDI file, we are currently checking this.
Then: We can only measure what is beeing sent, and that looks quite ok. The 2nd event should be sent only a few milliseconds later (depends on tempo), and that’s what we measure here. You can also observe this if you have an Interface with MIDI i/o, just connect the two with a MIDI cable, send MIDI track output to its Output and open MIDI Monitor set to its Input. You can see that the 2 messages appears almost instantly, there is no delay of as much as a beat between the two.
You may try to send those messages further apart, maybe the Genos cannot handle it so fast. Changing a sound is a big deal for any Instrument.
@musicullum
2023-07.27
Thank you very much for the quick reply.
I can rule out that the Yamaha Genos is too slow for switching.
I use this kind of sound switching for 10 years on stage with a Midiland software. (PC Live Player 7)
I tested again today. I extended the midi event to 5 bars.
Then I set the first sysex message to bar 0002.1.1. and the second sysex message to bar 0003.1.1. Both sysex messages were sent by VST Live pro at the scheduled time.
If you reduce the distance of the second sysex message (0002.2.1) below one bar (< 4/4) to the first sysex message, then the second message will not be sent until 4/4 time has passed. (0003.2.1). It seems that VST Live pro, when sending sysex messages, pauses 4/4 after each message.
The midi monitor does not show sent data until the midi track is also sending data.
I hope I have described this reasonably understandable.
If possible, I will make a video tomorrow, then it might be a bit clearer.
Cu Herbert
This is not about that we don’t beleive you. But let me repeat that we measure how VST Live puts out the sysex data on a physical MIDI device, where it gets sent instantly, so if the message gets delayed, it must be somewhere else.
Also let me repeat (as you don’t mention it) that we did encounter some problem with your project if the event on track “Remote 10” is not extended to the right (as in the picture sent), did you try that? Because that is actually a bug, in my place, the 2nd Sysex did not get sent at all until I extended the event. You may also try and move the 2nd sysex message a tiny bit earlier. The reason is that that sysex message is right after the end of the MIDI event (a bug of the MIDI importer), so that the player thinks it is outside. Give that a try first please!
I have extended the midi event to 5 bars on track “Remote 10”. As you had described it in the first answer.
Maybe there are VSTL users who can confirm my observation.
I will test further now. I have a few more ideas there.
Thanks for your great work.
Cu Herbert
@musicullum
I have tested again with sending SYSEX messages. with VST Live pro [1.2.5.xxx]
I could not make a video recording due to the lack of a camera.
Here my Test result.
Two sysex messages were sent.
The first sysex message at clock position 0003.1.1
calls the Registration “Backer Street” on the Yamaha GENOS.
“F0 43 73 01 52 26 03 00 00 00 55 53 42 3A
2F 52 45 47 49 53 54 2F 5F 42 5F 2F 42 61
6B 65 72 20 53 74 72 65 65 74 20 2D 20 47
65 72 72 79 20 52 61 66 66 65 72 74 79 2E
53 38 30 31 2E 52 47 54 00 F7”
The second SYSEX message activates the registration button #1. on Yamaha GENOS
“F0 43 73 01 52 25 11 00 02 00 00 F7”
As described in my previous observations, the second sysex message always arrives one bar later at the Yamaha GENOS. Would be nice, if a VST Live user could confirm or deny my observations. Thanks in advance.
Herbert
My midi device used is a MOTU midi Expres XT.
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@Spork
Hi
Here the result of your suggestion. The midi-even was increased and the sysex message was moved to position 0001.3.1.
Everything has been left as it is. The white line shows the time when the second sysex message activates the first reg button. Has merely slipped back a few ticks.
In essence, you can say that the distance of one bar length has remained.
Thanks for your effort.
Greetings Herbert
But i saw that the Yellow Data Signal LED in the midle of the MOTU, shows Datatranfer for 3-4 seconds, by stopped VST Live. I don’t know what data that are. In Cubase 12 dosen’t do so. Hope it helps.
Herbert
Your MIDI Monitor display does not show any of the Note Events.
How exactly (!) did you get to your result? Mine looks entirely different, and correct; the sysex messages as well as the first Note On appear immediately, jsut as expected.
Do you have any possibility to try a different MIDI interface? Because this is proof that what VST Live sends is correct as well as the timing of it. To repeat: we connect a physical MIDI Output to a physical MIDI Input, send out to first, and measure the latter. If the one MIDI track is all that can send MIDI to the output, anything showing a different result must be happening outside. Most of all, there is no reason at all for the Note Events not to occur at the output, but something (the MOTU mabe?) that filters those data. Measured with Steinberg UR44C.
Are you sure to have just that track and nothing else activated?
On Stop, VST Live sends Note Off messages for any notes still pressed, and All Notes Off messages on all active MIDI Output ports.
@musicullum
First of all, thank you for your patience and support.
Sorry for the late feedback. I tested the whole yesterday and today.
I have determined the monitor data as follows. Just opened the midi monitor, set the midi receive channel and pressed VST Live Start via the computer keyboard. I was like them also noticed that the sent notes from the midi track, was not displayed in the monitor, this first time no further attention paid. My MOTU midi express XT settings I have checked.
I could not see any filter settings of notes.
Likewise, the routing setting is also correct.
I still have an old Steinberg Midex3 USB midi interface. With this interface the sysex data in VST Live pro is sent at the right time and my Yamaha GENOS does what it should. Great! However, I couldn’t see any notes in the MIDI - Monitor either.
Inspired by your suggestions, I had a close look today, What, when, where, how, happens. I could observe the following.
As soon as VST Live pro sends a sysex event (and be it still so small), my MOTU midi express XT is flooded with data in such a way that the shortly following sysex event is put into the MIDI buffer. Only when the MIDI buffer is processed, the second sysex message is processed. This is how the perceived switching distance of one bar comes about. Unfortunately, I could not reproduce how this comes about. I have also renewed the MOTU driver (latest version) as a precaution.
Even if I don’t have a keyboard connected to the midi lines, the same thing happens.
For me it looks like an internal MIDI-LOOP???
But what does not match is the fact that I have no problems in Cubase 12.
There the MOTU midi express XT works since years without problems with the same midi driver. I am a little perplexed.
Attached you will find my sysex-demo project
Herbert Sysex-Demo.zip (13.7 KB)
Yes, but not in VST Live. There is no way for a physical MIDI signal to get back into VST Live internally. Only via Virtual MIDI ports, but you don’t appear to use those.
In your project, the track in question has no input assigned, correct? That would be a way to create a loop. Or possibly via a track Layer. But there are none of those.
a) disconnect MIDI from your MOTUs’ outputs that feed back into VST Live
b) check your MOTU internal connections.
While it is certainly strange that it works different with Cubase, the Midex3 as well as nobody else reports such problems indicates a problem within either your cabling, or your MIDI Interface routing.
@musicullum
Yes Correct. I don’t have a midi input assigned And I also unplugged the midi out of the keyboard to avoid a midi loop.
I’d like to close this treat and mark it as solved so you can continue to devote your attention to the VST Live project. Assuming your agreement.
BTW.
On my computer, in the midi monitor, the key combination [CTRL]+[a] and the [CTRL]+[c] did not work. I could only reach the data by clicking on the right mouse button.
Maybe you can check this again shortly. I use win10.
