Sorry, but after just 20 minutes trying to use Cubase 8 my conclusion is that it’s a bit of a mess. Here are the 4 issues I’m having before even trying to start working with it:
CPU usage - despite the trumpeting of greater efficiency, I am seeing CPU usage on an existing project of around double that of Cubase 7.5 and Nuendo 6.5. Much much worse than previous versions, to the point where I woudl be worried about whether it’s going to be able to run my sessions at all. This could be because I’m loading an existing project built in Cubase 7.5 and Nuendo 6.5, but it’s defintiely a worry.
Aero - I have always used Windows Classic mode in the studio because it’s clear and simple. The requirement to turn Aero on is a step backwards visually. Fonts are harder to read and fuzzy.
Menu bar disappears - the menu bar is not working properly at all. First it appeared on my second monitor, and then once I’d minimzed a couple of windows, it disappeared altogether - I just get a white strip. If I move my moouse over the white strip the menu items are there, but basically it’s broken. I presume this is something to do with Aero.
Task bar disappears - with my standard set of windows open, the pop up task bar does not work at all. I usually have this below the Project Window on my 1st monitor, but it just doesn’t appear when I move the mouse to the bottom of the screen.
On the plus side, having flexible windows will be nice once it works, but at the moment it’s just a bit of a shambles. The various GUI tweaks look pretty cool as well, but there’s nothing significant here that really justifies the upgrade.
CPU usage is a major concern. If this is the new engine Steinberg will be using in all updates going forward, then Cubase and Nuendo and really going to struggle with big projects and I am deeply worried about where this will leave users with big templates.
Of course this is all just my personal experience from a very brief test with an existing project. For now I’m going back to Nuendo 6.5.
Sorry for the negative post. Cubase 7.5 and Nuendo 6.5 have been awesome for me this year, but this seems to be a bit of a backwards step.
Indeed to the above. This thread - http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=226&t=69659 - has the vast majority of folks reporting improved performance, often quite spectacularly so. So if some people are seeing the opposite, it leads me to conclude that there are specific issues with their system that need addressing.
One crucial piece of info is missing - are you using asioguard? If so, at what setting? What are the differences between the three settings? I’d read one ranty poster who was saying how terrible C8 was. Turned out (after 2 days) he had disabled aisoguard completely. Well, um, duh. I’m not saying that’s definitely what’s happening here, but it needs to be looked at first. When your conclusion is that the new engine is a backwards step when pretty much everyone else is saying the opposite, I’d spend more than 20 minutes with the program before writing it off.
Well, I didn’t actually say it was unusable. I just said “I can’t use it”.
All my projects are built from the same template, so the CPU issue will most likely affect every piece of work I do. I would venture that the GUI issues will also manifest themselves in every project, as I suspect they’re related to Aero.
If it’s working well for you, that’s great, and I promise I would genuinely like it to work for me too - better CPU usage and improved window flexibility would definitely be worth the upgrade. Unfortunately it just isn’t happening here, but I agree, if I find time, I should spend more time and perhaps try building stuff from scratch. Problem is my template is 1300 tracks so I won’t be rebuilding that any time soon.
I checked my Audio device settings and they looked to be exactly the same as in C7. Asio guard was set to normal and I had multithreading enabled. My latency settings was also the same.
You could be right, but I honestly don’t think there are any differences between how I have the two versions set up. And please don’t think I’m ranting - I just bought an upgrade, hoped (and believed) I would see some improvements, and unfortunately saw the opposite. If i’m not entitled to be disappointed, and to post and explain why, then I’m not sure what this forum is here for.
My system is a 16 core Xeon machine with 128GB of ram, built by Scan Computers specifically as a Cubase/Nuendo rig. If there are system issues, I have no idea what they might be, because it’s been running huge sessions in N6 and C7 all year without much of a hiccup.
Of course you’re entitled to be disappointed. I just meant that if you do a brief test and find performance is worse than in C7 yet most other people are suggesting that it’s improved then it probably warrants further investigation in case there is something going on with your specific setup that is creating a problem. Obviously it’s up to you whether you have the time/inclination to investigate it or if you are happier to just stay with Cubase 7.
So Asioguard to Max is the same as having it ticked in C7? OK, that may well make a difference - I will retest as soon as I have the chance. Ironically, looking at my screen grabs of CPU usage, the Average meter is way higher than usual, whilst the peak meter is significantly lower. Not sure why this would be, and also don’;t understand how the Peak usage can be considerably lower than the Average usage.
I’d be more than happy to eat some humble pie if it turns out that CPU usage is indeed improved and I’ve been hasty with my conclusions.
That said, the GUI and graphics issues I’m seeing here would make it very hard to work with Cubase 8 in its current state. I can’t see the menu bar, and my task bar is also no longer accessible.
For the task bar, I noticed another page with known issues (knowledge base?) stating that this is a known issue. If you turn off auto hide task bar, the bar is accessible from CB8 too… kind of a workaround, I hope SB will address this in a future update.
My guess is that performance gains (or in some cases performance losses?) will vary a great deal depending on the nature of your projects and the buffer size you like to run, hence the varying opinions showing on this forum. Some people are suggesting it’s in a whole new league to C7 but I’m not seeing that myself.
I’ve noticed something similar to you… Average ASIO meter stays about the same in my case but the Real Time meter is massively lower. I can’t really draw too many conclusions about actual performance without spending a bit of time comparing a few different projects.
RE: the GUI issues, I’ve seen a few people talk about graphics cars compatibility issues with Aero. Might be worth checking that your graphics card is fully Aero compatible?
Remember that the performance gains aren’t based on improvement in processing power or anything like that. They are based on running the project at a significantly higher latency than what is set for the audio card.
As you approach max load at the new “expanded” range, there can be an actual loss of performance. I’ve pointed this out numerous times already. My orchestration templates lose between 10 and 15 performance. But, they are running at 90% load, and were already being used at a buffer setting that was optimized for the max my audio interface can handle. All the ASIO Guard in the world isn’t gonna choke more bits down my audio cards throat. So, the ASIO Guard adding buffers doesn’t accomplish anything, and actually seems to use my interface in a less efficient way.
I would suggest trying to start Cubase 8 in safe start mode first. I don’t trust any performance results coming from installations which prefs have been imported from earlier versions, simply because the number of possible configurations in a big Studio are almost infinite and impossible to predict.
My buffer size is currently set at about 6 ms (512). I was having similar issues, so last night, I disabled both hyperthreading AND Asio guard. I then enabled the Steinberg power scheme. Instantly, my CPU meter dropped to about half of what it was. It is running much more efficiently now. I will run it this way from now on.
I have a Xeon machine as well, although mine currently only has one processor with six cores. I have been debating adding a second processor for another six cores. A long time ago, I read somewhere that while okay with a single processor with multiple cores, Cubase does not like multiple processors with multiple cores. Do you know if this is true? I do not know, so I have not upgraded to a second 6-core processor.
This is exactly why you aren’t seeing a benefit … in fact I’m surprised you didn’t get a message that says ASIO Guard is being turned off based on your buffer settings. Did you turn your setting down before opening the old projects?
I did get that message at times, depending on what level of ASIO guard I selected and the level of buffer. Haven’t really had time to get into the details of C8 yet as I still have work to finish in C7. My findings were really just the result of quickly loading a project I’m currently working with from C7.
Yeah, it’s actually simpler than it seems. Although there’s probably more to it, the easiest is to think of it this way Low, Medium and High just increase the buffer multiplier. The higher the buffer multiplier, the less load on your audio card, but the higher the project latency is. At some point, the multiplier will be higher than your audio card will support, so ASIO Guard turns off.