Of course it could be done. Of course I could mixdown the 4 cabinet-mics of each guitar down to one track which I record then, without DI track. Of course I can use less mics on the drums - telling the drummer that he does not need 5 toms, 2 kicks, 10 cymbals… But I do not want that.
You can’t compare a ska-band with - to stay at those soundexamples) tech-deathmetal. Nobody on earth can play the stuff that tight like you will hear it on an average album later. Though a great musician will sound great and need less editing or at least it will enable me to do the editing with less artefacts.
And usually I have the complete album in one project, this is a lot easier to handle because drums, guitars etc has to sound the same during all the songs. But now that acoustic-guitar part featuring 3 guitars, left - right - lead- recorded with pickup, a mic and stereo room… routed to groups. 15 tracks. Now in the next song I need different acoustic guitar sound because now the dude uses picking instead of chords… another 15 tracks. Now imagine an album featuring dozends of different sounds and elements - it sums up. Esp when you are not recording just single tracks per instr. 1 track is NOT one instrument. Maybe it works for the most here to record guitar with just a single mic, bass just DI, acoustic instruments just with single mics on a good spot. Yes it is possible and might sound perfect, but it all depends - this is why I do not read those recording-forums in the www - there are dudes asking about problems while recording local punk/metal bands - having to deal with bad musicians, bad instruments etc - while other dudes are trying to help them out, but telling them basically how to record a bluesband with brilliant musicians, brilliant equipment in a brilliant room.
I work in a similar fashion, but when it comes to mix stage, I print all the edits and separate the songs into their own separate projects with only the used audio in the pool. I used to work your way for full albums (all in one project) but I found the program got sluggish and the work I do, the songs are supposed to sound different from track to track. All demo work still uses a single project because time and production depth is limited.
FWIW, I use a lot of mics too when I record. Just like you. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I guess I will probably dodge another Nuendo version. I have a 13-song math metal album starting this week the kit alone will require 15-16 microphones alone due to the size of it then add everything else… synced to a varying click track.
What a bummer Brandy. I hope they address this soon but I can’t be optimistic because it seems like a major issue.
I agree to that as well…
It is rather annoying that basic things like the metronom don’t work for some users.
Still, keeping all songs of a production in one project and then working with a gazillion of tracks,
plugs and edits is, sorry to say, … just calling for all kinds of troubles.
Even today’s technology and software engineering has its limits.
Well, sometimes I like to have - and do have - everything in one project. Sometimes this makes sence for me. And I never had a problem here. And NO kind of trouble. The one project I was talking about - 80 min, 560 tracks/groups was the most solid project I ever worked with, I do not know why but I never had a crash.
@ Woodcrest: Sorry for the late response - I was busy:
I work in a similar fashion, but when it comes to mix stage, I print all the edits and separate the songs into their own separate projects with only the used audio in the pool. I used to work your way for full albums (all in one project) but I found the program got sluggish and the work I do, the songs are supposed to sound different from track to track. All demo work still uses a single project because time and production depth is limited.
100% same workflow here!
@ others:
I do not know why this is from any importance - but just to answer: I never wrote that I keep all edits in the prijects during the mix. And I never wrote that I ALWAYS have all songs in one project. It can happen. And I keep the edits till the end, in seperate projects in seperate folders. I work in session-copys - when I am done with recording/editing I allways spend some time to set up the mixes - here I bounce everything and empty the trash after that. Because while I might love big projects I prefer a clean and organized structure. Often I split into seperate projects when the mix is set up - it all depends. If the songs are different I have seperate projects from the beginning. Actually the current 3 album mixes are in seperate projects. I would say - it all depends!!
Punkrockdemo: All in one project. Some kind of simple metal, even when riffing is complex: Drums in seperate projects - because Nuendo slows down when having more than 666 edits per track - when done I continue often in one big project. When all songs are only drums, bass, 2x guitar plus vox - why not. It is easy and fast that way. Doing a change in guitar sound in a more final mixing stage: One second - affects all songs. yea, this is what I need. I did about 150 records in the past 10 years, I would say I can handle it without user errors…
Well, when we are here - Nuendo is not the best example regarding features for transfering setting between projects. There are a couple of ways to do that, trackexport, mixersettings etc - I know I know - but lets say I need settings from another song - I have to close the current song, open the other song (can use some time) safe settings, close, re-open, load settings. 10 min… I would like to just select an Npr and extract some settings from there, like when importing a track archive - here I can choose the tracks I need. And regarding the track archives - I hate to delete audio before exporting track-archives. Why not implementing a feature which enables us to export those archives WITHOUT any linked audio? Would be cool even for generating project templates…
Well, basically we are here to discuss Nuendo issues. I posted something regarding the tempotrack issue in another thread. Please read here:
Brandy,
I have to agree with all the other guys here. You should not need 500 tracks to record a song. You only need ONE track, one PZM microphone, and voyetra software buddy. I mean come on. Your work flow sucks. I bet you drink coffee too. Yep, cut that crap out ! And i bet you take bathroom breaks in sessions too?? Mmmmhmmmm, i knew it …time wasted. NOW Let ME tell YOU how to record an album. I dont care that you have software that works in one version and the new one is bunk. If you’d just use Voyetra or Opcode Vision, then you would not have any Nuendo problems anymore. I bet you got fancy mic preamps too, right? Bullocks! ALl you need is a fostex front end and you can make that same magic happen. I bet you use 500 tracks so you can brag, right? I knew it! And i bet you also do multi tracking too??..thats for amatures buddy…you need to hire a real engineer and session musicians and you worries will be all over… I once recorded a Fart Metal band and i only needed a pocket knife and a piece of drift wood to ‘cut’ that record…
…oh wait…i thought i was on Gearslutz… sorry…
Sorry gang, but the arrogance as to how to tell someone how THEY should record and produce a record astounds me here. When i read the posts i thought it was a joke. I think what Brandy and others want and expect from Steinberg is fro this FLAGSHIP to freaking FLY right for once. I jerk from PTSD everytime my inbox has a ‘new and improved’ email from Steinberg. I am seeing POST guys moan about recent upgrades. If Steinberg alienates the POST guys…then who the hell is gonna buy their software?? They have already openly told us audio guys to basically take a hike…meanwhile we were the goons paying 2000.00+ for this damn software orginally and have been loyal since day one. I dont think we ask for too much. Just stable software that does what its supposed to do, a reliable click track and a few other basic essentials. I still recall (oh crap, here he goes) when Steinberg took OUT the freggin MONO button. Really? Who is writing this code? Pure Insanity. I am in 5.0 and actually have my USB dongle in hand to try the 5.5.3 upgrade and after seeing the noise here…my curiosity has been snuffed out. I dont want the hassle, i just want to record records with minimal computer problems. I have totally lost faith in the Steiny folks. I’ll hold on to N5.0 for as long as i can…untill its obsolete i guess. I have really not contributed to this forum like i used to and i see that nothing has really changed. Truly sad as they have the best DAW out there.
I’m going back under the rock i came out from…but guys…telling a forum member how to do his stuff…really? Especially when he did not ask advise on HOW. I am blown away. Help a fellow member solve the problem, dont tell him how to make albums. He’s got a work flow that works perfectly on former versions, so the new version should…bare minium…work exactly like the former versions…not worse.
Brandy, keep fighting the good fight brother, i gave up the battles with Steiny years ago…so i applaud you keeping the fight alive.
Regarding the mono button - there was another one, in Nuendo 1 - you was able to switch a stereo track into a mono track and vice versa I missed that feature, though it is of course not a big deal to live without it. When it comes to plugins it makes even sence to leave it out, because some plugins will not automatically change from mono to stereo (and vice versa) - Waves for example.
Regarding 5.5.3 vs 5.1: Well, I love the features of 5.5.3. For some of them I was waiting since ages.
Gridlines follow quantise settings (so you can set up for triplets or what the heck else, was always a PITA to edit stuff which is not 4 on the floor)
Beat Detective Style drumediting - it can speed up some tasks by 1000% - but of course often I prefer manual editing to keep the feeling/flow… But sometimes…
Edit-Groups (you can live without them when you group the events manually directly after recording, but it is cool because you can switch off and on - great when editing drums, 90% of the time it is active, but sometimes you need to do some dedicated editing - here you can switch it of)
BUT…
Those issues… well… I am spending (wasting) that much time here because I LOVE the application. And in the same time it makes me just angry when it comes to the issues and bugs and the lack of communication. The application is close to be the best app on earth, there are just some issues… issues which would just need some better communication between development and beta-testers/users… I can not believe that those issues will need a complete redesign. Maybe they are not easy to solve. But well - in our business - usually you will not tell the clients “no, that is impossible” when they want (for example) brighter guitars. Even when it is difficult, you will find a solution. Brighter guitars or a sample replaced snare will maybe need some work, but it is not a remix. And if it helps to make the result perfect you will skip sleeping for the night.
Oh I am repeating myself like a broken record.
But is the Pro Tools grass really greener? Maybe I just should check it out.
@ Dennis:
Thanks! Your post make me laugh hard in a good way - and:
He’s got a work flow that works perfectly on former versions, so the new version should…bare minium…work exactly like the former versions…not worse.
That is exactly the point I am trying to explain here. In addition I have to repeat that (regarding the tempotrack issue) it even works in latest Cubase. So the argument regarding the new features compared to older versions are not 100% valid, at least in my understanding.
Lol, … Den…
Hope, you’ve got a comfi sofa under your rock…
Now, seriosly, output time for “Bravery Medals” for using annoying DAW Softwares is only Wednesday afternoon between 15:00 and 17:00.
Big K
I once had a shovel… really nice, expensive one.
They claimed I could do all my garden work with it. But when I was half through my 400 square kilometers
of rocky potato acre it broke… They told be it was not ment for such kind of work, but I said: Nay, this is my garden and I want to dig through it with your shovel and that I want to do twice a year. You said it was good for all my garden work…
JK
I just made a post with a video showing the Tempotrack - Issue. Please watch and then think about it. And to write it again and again: In Cubase 6.5 latest as well as in older versions this problem does not exist.
This has to be fixed. Not only in months, this has to be fixed in days. You are not able to work in Nuendo otherwise, I will write an invoice for the lost time soon if stuff like this continues to mess with my time and nerves.
Hey guys! It’s been forever since I’ve posted. I haven’t bothered upgrading from 4.3 until now but I think I’ll be doing so tomorrow.
Basically I have a project where I had a well known drummer and in general he did a great job but on the first song he hadn’t really settled in yet and there are tempo fluctuations. What I need to know is…do the new multitrack quantizing features really work? The old style of doing hitpoints and slices etc just made me glaze over in N4 and I never got into it. I have a song that I don’t’ want to copy/paste sections on, I need to retain his whole performance. Standard 3 minute pop tune with about 12 tracks of drums. It was done to a click so there is a set tempo to follow.
Does it work? How difficult? Brandy’s review of 5.5.3 makes me nervous but then I never have more than 60-70 tracks and even that’s pretty rare. Most projects under 48.
I would use Cubase till they fixed the tempotrack issue… Or Use 5.5.2 - for drumediting it is great, just the lanes are messed up and unusable. This was fixed in 5.5.3. Well…
The drumquantize stuff is working great… but… you are talking about half a song… why not doing it just by hand?
I was and I am editing mostly by hand, even if I have to move every drumhit. When the parts are easy the quantize feature is a great time-safer, but you will come to a good result without that as well - even better because you can manually control each single hit… Half a song of a standard-rock/pop song will take maybe just 30 minutes when done by hand… 10 minutes with quanztise… 10 min = 8 min fixing some hits, 2 minutes for the other stuff. Be carefull to not have lifeless drums in the end…
It’s not a perfect 1/2 of the song. It’s drifting throughout. I’ve looked at doing it by hand and it’s pretty crazy. I’m not sure it will work with quantizing either but I ordered N5 so we’ll see. I don’t know, even to do it by hand, I will wait until I have the better grouping in N5.5. I have 12 tracks of drums.
I almost never use the tempo track so it sounds like 5.5.3 will be best for me, but I did watch your video and it’s troubling. Hopefully it will be addressed very soon in a maintenance update.
Well, I recently talked to Thorsten via Fon and it seems that they are able to fix it soon. I really hope they do. Maybe it would be a good idea to communicate this here, in the forum…?
Regarding grouping: You can group the events in N4 as well, but it is more easy when they are solid all over because you have to select them by hand before - it is not possible if you have already hundreds of snippets on your tracks. My workflow was to hit a keytroke (for grouping) directly after I stopped recording the take. That way the events of one take are all selected still and that keystroke is so much in “me” that I still hit that key after hitting stop - even if I do not need to manually group them.
One thing regarding the tempotrack bug, Brandys overkill projects vs small projects…
Yesterday I had to open the 560 track monster project because we needed to do a video-edit of one song (haha, 13 min song stripped down to 5 min… was not making sence anymore (musically) but well…).
The project is 96 GB big (pool) - 80 min long, 560 tracks - very very dedicated routing, truckloads of automation. Needs 10 min to open. I opened in N5.5.3 64 bit (mixed in 5.5.2) - was editing and stuff… NO (!!!) f*ckin problem with sluggish cursor etc !! Tempotrack is of course ultra-complex, because this is 80 min of complex music… Not one single problem!!!
On the same day I was working on a small Stem-Mastering for a 7’’ release - 5 short songs, each of them with 5-8 stereotracks… very few edits, the complete project is about 7 min at all - CPU is about 5%… SLUGGISH AS F*CK!!! I was not able to do some basic editing (cutting count ins and breaks) - till I disabled the tempotrack (was no problem because there was no tempotrack, but my projects have enabled tempotrack by def).
Does this make sence?? I would be under the impression that the sluggish problem would be at maximum regarding the big (VERY big) project and would be almost not there in that mini-mini-project…
It makes perfect sense and is actually reassuring. That nature of the bug should make it easier to isolate and fix. You might want to turn off that default until they fix it
Oh! How is it with the 64 bit version of N5.5? Is it worth using now? Will 32bit plugins work ok?
