In the thread called “VERY ugly bug: Sluggish GUI with enabled Tempotrack” he specifically says that it’s fine in version 5.1.
Is that the album we both are thinking of?
Fredo
There is a large difference in terms of features from 5.1 → 5.5.3 - especially regarding tempo track changes and real-time audio stretching. As I mentioned above I can’t reproduce that issue (tempo track enabled here in a large mix session with no slowdown).
I couldn’t possibly comment on musical tastes (which is where this thread seems headed) but I would offer the suggestion that feature sets evolve and are able to take advantage of faster hardware. With 5.5 onwards we now have much better time/pitch algorithms and it’s possible to draw tempo changes which affect the audio in real-time. Expecting this to have the same amount of CPU drain as the technology before it (especially with 1000s of audio events) is unrealistic unless you’re running the very latest hardware.
I’ve suggested consolidating some of those events down to give the hardware a little bit of wiggle room. At the very least Brandy could try this and see if it helps his situation and if not then we can at least cross that one off the list as a potential source of the problem.
To keep ist short:
It is fine in 5.1 as well as in Cubase 5.5… the Tempotrack thing even is fine in latest Cubase (6.5).
So, working for about 40 days in a 500 track projekt, 80 min duration in C5.5 without ANY issue… I mixed it in 5.5.2 without issues as well, but in 5.5.3 I have significant slower GUI when just opening the same project(s)-
So… the idea “to clean up the project” might be fine for those who like a clean workflow with smaller projects, but it is not the answer for a bug which was not there in older versions.
It is like:
“well, my Ferrari does only 80km/h and above everything slows down and starts to rattle”
“mh, then just don’t drive faster as 80km/h! It will safe fuel, the enviroment, it is much safer and in addition you are not allowed to drive faster usually…”
“well, but before I was able to do 300km/h without a problem…???”
“…duuude - 300km/h is WAY to fast, don’t do that!!”
Got my sight of view?
@ Fredo:
Yes, it is. It is 8 years old and changed a lot. And still is a reverence.
With all due respect, Brandy, I am pretty sure this can be done with around 30 tracks, too.
I say that, because I have done sim stuff with 24 MTR …w/o sampler or DAW, at all.
Our most demanding 24-track tape management was a 17 song project with a 9-piece Ska band
featuring plenty of backing vocals and a 3 piece brass section with the occasional trumpet,
sax & trombone solos on top of the crowd.
Of course, additional percussion, organ and guitar solos were also included.
This was fun on a no-recall analog desk with fader/mute automation, only.
Took a week off, when it was finished. 
On Nuendo I had probably extended the track count to maybe 40…
and I probably had used more than 5 FX and 6 compressors… lol …
Peace, Big K
I understand your point of view but technology marches forward and with it sometimes older hardware can not do what is required of it even though it looks like there have only been superficial changes. IMO the 5.5.3 upgrade was much more deserving of something other than a X.X.1 increment.
I’m unable to reproduce the slow-downs here but I might have a different workflow to you (my projects are in the 120-250 track area though). Perhaps if you can post a project file I can see if there are similar symptoms on my system. If there is a bug then this will help narrow it doing to being system specific or part of a wider problem.
Well… that is strange.
I just went on editing songs which I recorded a few weeks ago in Cubase 5.5. Medium Sized Projects, 20 track drums with 20 disabled tracks containing spare-takes… lot of vocals, preprod guitars. About 80 tracks/song. Not small, not big. Drums are allready heavily overdubbed and patchworked - about 100 takes per song (yea, tech deathmetal) - but still not timing-edited - and the whole thing is BLAZING FAST. Faster then everything else, even in high zoom mode everything is fast - scrolling, editing, cursor.
The days bevore I was mixing a medieval album, each song only 20-40 tracks, when without drums than even less.
When I had (edited) drumtracks on the screen everything was fast - I scrolled down toll some Cymbal-Overdubs where on the screen as well - without any edits! Solid waves… then all of a sudden I had that sluggish cursor behaviour!!
The projects with the biggest trubble- which I had open when doing the upgrade to 5.5.3 were quite small, imported from AAF - no edits - solid waves/events - about 30 tracks per song… DAMN SLOW CURSOR.
I do not understand this.
And regarding the workflow stuff - well, I do not care that much if there are Ska-Bands out which can be recorded in one takes without editing and automation. That is great! Often I do similar as well. BUT some kinds of music need more treatment - and I do not have these missfunktions because I keep the edited events in my project or because I record complex music or because the drummers are bad or the music is just to complex for even good drummers. I wrote it a couple or times and here again:
A project which had those trubbles is running fine in latest (same engine as latest Nuendo!!!) Cubase als well as in older versions of the software. This has nothing to do with the music or the amounts of takes. These male-funktions are just there and I do not know why.
Of course it could be done. Of course I could mixdown the 4 cabinet-mics of each guitar down to one track which I record then, without DI track. Of course I can use less mics on the drums - telling the drummer that he does not need 5 toms, 2 kicks, 10 cymbals… But I do not want that.
You can’t compare a ska-band with - to stay at those soundexamples) tech-deathmetal. Nobody on earth can play the stuff that tight like you will hear it on an average album later. Though a great musician will sound great and need less editing or at least it will enable me to do the editing with less artefacts.
And usually I have the complete album in one project, this is a lot easier to handle because drums, guitars etc has to sound the same during all the songs. But now that acoustic-guitar part featuring 3 guitars, left - right - lead- recorded with pickup, a mic and stereo room… routed to groups. 15 tracks. Now in the next song I need different acoustic guitar sound because now the dude uses picking instead of chords… another 15 tracks. Now imagine an album featuring dozends of different sounds and elements - it sums up. Esp when you are not recording just single tracks per instr. 1 track is NOT one instrument. Maybe it works for the most here to record guitar with just a single mic, bass just DI, acoustic instruments just with single mics on a good spot. Yes it is possible and might sound perfect, but it all depends - this is why I do not read those recording-forums in the www - there are dudes asking about problems while recording local punk/metal bands - having to deal with bad musicians, bad instruments etc - while other dudes are trying to help them out, but telling them basically how to record a bluesband with brilliant musicians, brilliant equipment in a brilliant room.
Thanks, at least one is getting my point 
I work in a similar fashion, but when it comes to mix stage, I print all the edits and separate the songs into their own separate projects with only the used audio in the pool. I used to work your way for full albums (all in one project) but I found the program got sluggish and the work I do, the songs are supposed to sound different from track to track. All demo work still uses a single project because time and production depth is limited.
FWIW, I use a lot of mics too when I record. Just like you. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I guess I will probably dodge another Nuendo version. I have a 13-song math metal album starting this week the kit alone will require 15-16 microphones alone due to the size of it then add everything else… synced to a varying click track.
What a bummer Brandy. I hope they address this soon but I can’t be optimistic because it seems like a major issue.
I read you loud and clear too.
I agree to that as well…
It is rather annoying that basic things like the metronom don’t work for some users.
Still, keeping all songs of a production in one project and then working with a gazillion of tracks,
plugs and edits is, sorry to say, … just calling for all kinds of troubles.
Even today’s technology and software engineering has its limits.
Big K
Well, sometimes I like to have - and do have - everything in one project. Sometimes this makes sence for me. And I never had a problem here. And NO kind of trouble. The one project I was talking about - 80 min, 560 tracks/groups was the most solid project I ever worked with, I do not know why but I never had a crash.
@ Woodcrest: Sorry for the late response - I was busy:
I work in a similar fashion, but when it comes to mix stage, I print all the edits and separate the songs into their own separate projects with only the used audio in the pool. I used to work your way for full albums (all in one project) but I found the program got sluggish and the work I do, the songs are supposed to sound different from track to track. All demo work still uses a single project because time and production depth is limited.
100% same workflow here!
@ others:
I do not know why this is from any importance - but just to answer: I never wrote that I keep all edits in the prijects during the mix. And I never wrote that I ALWAYS have all songs in one project. It can happen. And I keep the edits till the end, in seperate projects in seperate folders. I work in session-copys - when I am done with recording/editing I allways spend some time to set up the mixes - here I bounce everything and empty the trash after that. Because while I might love big projects I prefer a clean and organized structure. Often I split into seperate projects when the mix is set up - it all depends. If the songs are different I have seperate projects from the beginning. Actually the current 3 album mixes are in seperate projects. I would say - it all depends!!
Punkrockdemo: All in one project. Some kind of simple metal, even when riffing is complex: Drums in seperate projects - because Nuendo slows down when having more than 666 edits per track - when done I continue often in one big project. When all songs are only drums, bass, 2x guitar plus vox - why not. It is easy and fast that way. Doing a change in guitar sound in a more final mixing stage: One second - affects all songs. yea, this is what I need. I did about 150 records in the past 10 years, I would say I can handle it without user errors…
Well, when we are here - Nuendo is not the best example regarding features for transfering setting between projects. There are a couple of ways to do that, trackexport, mixersettings etc - I know I know - but lets say I need settings from another song - I have to close the current song, open the other song (can use some time) safe settings, close, re-open, load settings. 10 min… I would like to just select an Npr and extract some settings from there, like when importing a track archive - here I can choose the tracks I need. And regarding the track archives - I hate to delete audio before exporting track-archives. Why not implementing a feature which enables us to export those archives WITHOUT any linked audio? Would be cool even for generating project templates…
Well, basically we are here to discuss Nuendo issues. I posted something regarding the tempotrack issue in another thread. Please read here:
Brandy,
I have to agree with all the other guys here. You should not need 500 tracks to record a song. You only need ONE track, one PZM microphone, and voyetra software buddy. I mean come on. Your work flow sucks. I bet you drink coffee too. Yep, cut that crap out ! And i bet you take bathroom breaks in sessions too?? Mmmmhmmmm, i knew it …time wasted. NOW Let ME tell YOU how to record an album. I dont care that you have software that works in one version and the new one is bunk. If you’d just use Voyetra or Opcode Vision, then you would not have any Nuendo problems anymore. I bet you got fancy mic preamps too, right? Bullocks! ALl you need is a fostex front end and you can make that same magic happen. I bet you use 500 tracks so you can brag, right? I knew it! And i bet you also do multi tracking too??..thats for amatures buddy…you need to hire a real engineer and session musicians and you worries will be all over… I once recorded a Fart Metal band and i only needed a pocket knife and a piece of drift wood to ‘cut’ that record…
…oh wait…i thought i was on Gearslutz… sorry…
Sorry gang, but the arrogance as to how to tell someone how THEY should record and produce a record astounds me here. When i read the posts i thought it was a joke. I think what Brandy and others want and expect from Steinberg is fro this FLAGSHIP to freaking FLY right for once. I jerk from PTSD everytime my inbox has a ‘new and improved’ email from Steinberg. I am seeing POST guys moan about recent upgrades. If Steinberg alienates the POST guys…then who the hell is gonna buy their software?? They have already openly told us audio guys to basically take a hike…meanwhile we were the goons paying 2000.00+ for this damn software orginally and have been loyal since day one. I dont think we ask for too much. Just stable software that does what its supposed to do, a reliable click track and a few other basic essentials. I still recall (oh crap, here he goes) when Steinberg took OUT the freggin MONO button. Really? Who is writing this code? Pure Insanity. I am in 5.0 and actually have my USB dongle in hand to try the 5.5.3 upgrade and after seeing the noise here…my curiosity has been snuffed out. I dont want the hassle, i just want to record records with minimal computer problems. I have totally lost faith in the Steiny folks. I’ll hold on to N5.0 for as long as i can…untill its obsolete i guess. I have really not contributed to this forum like i used to and i see that nothing has really changed. Truly sad as they have the best DAW out there.
I’m going back under the rock i came out from…but guys…telling a forum member how to do his stuff…really? Especially when he did not ask advise on HOW. I am blown away. Help a fellow member solve the problem, dont tell him how to make albums. He’s got a work flow that works perfectly on former versions, so the new version should…bare minium…work exactly like the former versions…not worse.
Brandy, keep fighting the good fight brother, i gave up the battles with Steiny years ago…so i applaud you keeping the fight alive.
Dennis in Memphis
Regarding the mono button - there was another one, in Nuendo 1 - you was able to switch a stereo track into a mono track and vice versa I missed that feature, though it is of course not a big deal to live without it. When it comes to plugins it makes even sence to leave it out, because some plugins will not automatically change from mono to stereo (and vice versa) - Waves for example.
Regarding 5.5.3 vs 5.1: Well, I love the features of 5.5.3. For some of them I was waiting since ages.
-
Gridlines follow quantise settings (so you can set up for triplets or what the heck else, was always a PITA to edit stuff which is not 4 on the floor)
-
Beat Detective Style drumediting - it can speed up some tasks by 1000% - but of course often I prefer manual editing to keep the feeling/flow… But sometimes…
-
Edit-Groups (you can live without them when you group the events manually directly after recording, but it is cool because you can switch off and on - great when editing drums, 90% of the time it is active, but sometimes you need to do some dedicated editing - here you can switch it of)
BUT…
Those issues… well… I am spending (wasting) that much time here because I LOVE the application. And in the same time it makes me just angry when it comes to the issues and bugs and the lack of communication. The application is close to be the best app on earth, there are just some issues… issues which would just need some better communication between development and beta-testers/users… I can not believe that those issues will need a complete redesign. Maybe they are not easy to solve. But well - in our business - usually you will not tell the clients “no, that is impossible” when they want (for example) brighter guitars. Even when it is difficult, you will find a solution. Brighter guitars or a sample replaced snare will maybe need some work, but it is not a remix. And if it helps to make the result perfect you will skip sleeping for the night.
Oh I am repeating myself like a broken record.
But is the Pro Tools grass really greener? Maybe I just should check it out.
@ Dennis:
Thanks! Your post make me laugh hard in a good way - and:
He’s got a work flow that works perfectly on former versions, so the new version should…bare minium…work exactly like the former versions…not worse.
That is exactly the point I am trying to explain here. In addition I have to repeat that (regarding the tempotrack issue) it even works in latest Cubase. So the argument regarding the new features compared to older versions are not 100% valid, at least in my understanding.
Brandy
Lol, … Den…
Hope, you’ve got a comfi sofa under your rock…
Now, seriosly, output time for “Bravery Medals” for using annoying DAW Softwares is only Wednesday afternoon between 15:00 and 17:00.
Big K
I once had a shovel… really nice, expensive one.
They claimed I could do all my garden work with it. But when I was half through my 400 square kilometers
of rocky potato acre it broke… They told be it was not ment for such kind of work, but I said: Nay, this is my garden and I want to dig through it with your shovel and that I want to do twice a year. You said it was good for all my garden work…
JK
So lets have somewhat of a Medal-Party tomorrow
Heheh, let’s have a metal party, instead…lol…
Big K
Ja that was auch the first what I missread in the originalpost.
Well, to come back to the original Bug-Problems:
I just made a post with a video showing the Tempotrack - Issue. Please watch and then think about it. And to write it again and again: In Cubase 6.5 latest as well as in older versions this problem does not exist.
This has to be fixed. Not only in months, this has to be fixed in days. You are not able to work in Nuendo otherwise, I will write an invoice for the lost time soon if stuff like this continues to mess with my time and nerves.