Activation problems - suddenly internet connection needed

again, I agree with lots of what you are saying,- I just trying to help by showing you that you can ‘bypass’ the Download Assistant

Rest assured (that in my testing) W11.1.2 works with the latest SAM - it’s just there are some bugs in SAM that once you know about you will be able to work around and it’s most likely you won’t actually be affected.

NONE of this licensing shambles is PGs fault - and yes, it can be annoying to be told to reboot - although often that fixes some of the SB bugs :slight_smile: - but remember PG is trying to help. His participation in this forum adds HUGE value to Wavelab as a product (in my opinion).

Personally I’m with you, have zero problem with the dongle, never had. All the way from the Atari days, the parallel printer dongle etc etc. iLok working beautifully too. BUT I think we need to be realistic, the dongle isn’t coming back. I feel we need to provide as much positive feedback as possible to get the licensing to work for us.

The relented on the horrendous monthly check-in (or whatever it was) and hopefully we can get to a much better place. It’s odd, we are made to feel like an irritation to SB HQ - but we should be on the same side.

In summary - yes it should just ‘work’ :slight_smile:

“NONE of this licensing shambles is PGs fault”

To be clear - I think PG is brilliant and welcome any and all of his insights when it comes to solving WL specific issues etc.

That said - he is the architect of this product and (presumably) knows it AND all its code better than anyone - which he should be communicating with the grade 10 programmers who created the Activation Manager and Download Manager.

He should also be the defacto final approval to confirm that licensing schemes (whether dongle or SAM) actually work correctly with each WL release and be able to confirm that via testing.

Clearly, there is a wide gap in where PGs involvement with a typical WL release ends and Steinberg licensing begins. It also appears that PG has about as much insight into this as you or I. Which is sad.

Sadder still - How does a 11.1.2 actually get out into the world without anyone at SB HQ hitting any of these activation speed bumps that users are seeing?

VP

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Until this mess is sorted, I will stay on 11.0.3.0 that works fine with the eLicenser.
In fact I feel like this will probably be my last WL update.
I used to like WL a lot, but I just don’t feel that I can take any more of Steinberg’s way of releasing what I would consider buggy alpha software as official releases.

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VP - I’m really not trying to argue with you as I agree with the main points you are making.

HOWEVER

Steinberg is a complicated beast - and ultimately answers to Yamaha over in Japan. It’s less concerned with the opinion of those at the ‘coal face’.

There are many people (who work there !), that don’t believe that the management don’t always make the best decisions.

Let’s try to be positive and use ‘customer pressure’ to make things better.

I’ve been relying on Steinberg software for the last 34 years - I’m not ready to throw in the towel just yet…which explains my rather short tempered replies to Steinberg staff on this forum :slight_smile:

Thank you Vocalpoint to express the problems so eloquently and on point.
A friend of mine had also massive problems with her WL Pro license recently and she contacted Steinberg support, who was very responsive and helpful. She don’t post here in the forums and there are probably a lot of people out there having problems with the activation management, not showing up here.
Personally I rely massively in my work on many Steinberg products to deliver high quality work and I expect Steinberg to make things like copy protection a top priority not to harm the legal user in any way. In my case I was completely thrown out of my creative mood as an artist working on a complex surround sound design for immersive work. After the mess with WL Pro activations I started Reaper to record the things in surround, but it wasn’t the same anymore - the loss of the of the crative momentum made me so angry.

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Dr. Strangelove

I am not trying to argue with you either - and I totally agree with (most) of your angles. HOWEVER:

  1. No cares about how complicated (or not) that Steinberg is.
  2. Once I pay money for something - I expect it to work 100% of the time without fail - especially when I am working.
  3. I try to be as positive as I can be until #2 is violated.
  4. I am not about to throw in the towel - yet. But then again - I managed to avoid this current debacle.

Steinberg can make all the excuses they want about bugs and defects and hot fixes - but the bottom line is - it’s out in the open and once experienced - they cannot do anything for me (or any of us).

Example: If I am in the middle of a client project and my activation suddenly fails - do I get any recourse/refund/value in any way? Do I get an apology? Do I get anything? Most likely - I will be left to suffer the consequences and in a more extreme case - lose a job because my app is rendered useless by non-functioning activation.

What I should get is an instant refund and then have Steinberg call my client directly and tell them exactly why I cannot deliver their project to them.

Customer “pressure” is one thing (and it has its place), but it seems all that has gotten us this round is a half empty promise of some oddball hotfix after these activation programmers enjoy their long weekend.

I would also be shocked if Yamaha Japan has any idea what is going on here in the trenches - they would not be bothered by something like this. Now - they might be bothered if users stop buying Steinberg products DUE to nonfunctioning software activation - but we are a long way from that right now.

My overall point here is none of this is even necessary if proper (and lengthy) Q&A had occurred months ago when this new licensing/activation process was released.

As a counterpoint to this mess - I have used Presonus Studio One since 2012 and not once have I had an activation condition or anything even remotely close to it. It’s just works - 100% of the time.

As working pros - at least with WL - we deserve better.

VP

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The problem is not in WL 11.1.2, but Steinberg Activation Manager 1.4.10. My understanding of the issue is that if you’re signed-in to SAM and try to launch software that supports both Steinberg Licensing and the eLicenser, then the eLicenser isn’t being checked for under some circumstances. In that case, this can be solved by doing one of the following:

If you redeem the voucher, you will still keep the Wavelab 11 license in your USB-eLicenser. Your dongle should work with an offline machine for as long as you have a version of the eLicenser Control Center released past June installed.

One of the improvements in this version of SAM is that the license check while starting up Steinberg applications is now both much faster and consistent (less likely to take longer than a second). Those are both things that primarily affected Wavelab users and were brought up in these forums. I speculate that this is where the slip up might have happened, unfortunately.

In any case, I would recommend redeeming the upgrade voucher if you can.

@Romantique_Tp

that’s essentially correct but missing a very important detail.

you may well be legitimately using a licence for something - and because there is an ‘equivalent’ disabled licence’ in SAM then it may deny you access to your paid for licence.

I have an updated C11 on my elicenser but some of the licenses that enables are not available unless I activate one of the C12 licences that I also have in my account.

Simply saying asking me to ‘redeem’ or ‘activate’ a licence isn’t really the point. Steinberg have locked us out from our licenses, that we paid good money for. We had ZERO choice in this because is was a FORCED download.

I’d expect you to be as outraged as I am - and I’m not sure that’s ever happened before in Steinberg history ?

it’s a bit of a poop-show (discourse has censored that reply!)

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“My understanding of the issue is that if you’re signed-in to SAM and try to launch software that supports both Steinberg Licensing and the eLicenser, then the eLicenser isn’t being checked for under some circumstances.”

Why is SAM even concerned with the eLicenser? I soon as I switched to the new licensing - the eLicenser software was instantly torched off my machine. In my mind - there is zero use for it after the switch.

This problem makes no sense for anyone who has already left the dongle long behind. But I can see this being a real mess for someone with a combo of products - older ones that need a dongle and newer ones (like WL) that do not.

I only have WL 11.x to be concerned with and do not want anything to do with the eLicenser.

VP

unfortunately it wasn’t - the Steinberg Download Assistant will make sure of that !

incidentally I’ve lots of software on my elicenser that I still use - there are months/years before we see the end of it.

In your case, this issue shouldn’t affect you. This issue primarily affects Wavelab 11.1 users who haven’t redeemed their free upgrade to Steinberg Licensing yet.

“Unfortunately, it wasn’t - the Steinberg Download Assistant will make sure of that!”

Not if I do not use the SDA - which I do not now.

I watched this thing reinstall the eLicenser too many times so once I moved the SAM based licensing - the eLicencer was gone and so is the SDA.

I will do all my updates manually now.

VP

I still maintain that Steinberg did a “terrible job” checking out the software before they foisted it on us. They need to either hire new BETA testers or find people who actually will check out what they are BETA testing. I do BETA testing for a couple of software companies and I can tell you that the companies I work with want me to thoroughly check the software before it goes “mainstream” and they have very few, if any, problems when the new software comes out. It maybe that Steinberg relies too heavily on “tech nerds” who don’t see the problems that others who are less “techie” will encounter.

I also think it would be nice if someone higher up from Steinberg addressed the problem here on the forum. It would show, at least, that they really “cared” about their user base.

FWIW

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I think what is also interesting is that most Steinberg software has lots of ancient legacy code. This is a reason that has been used to explain why some simple feature requests or bug fixing is very difficult - and why new bugs can easily sneak in - and I have some sympathy with that view.

BUT - that is not true with Activation Manager -or indeed the Download Assistant.

Zero reason they can’t get it right - and zero reason that they shouldn’t do THOROUGH testing prior to release on such an important piece of the increasingly complex Steinberg software jigsaw puzzle.

here’s a quote from @Ben_at_Steinberg

While it’s true that we’re using a third-party vendor to run the server-side part of our licensing system, we’ve still invested heavily from our internal teams to package up the functions of the licensing platform in a way that makes sense for our applications, plug-ins and content. It’s taken a huge effort across the business to build new tools for users, adapt our products, interface to our existing systems and business process

shame to waste all that “huge effort” by not testing properly.

(rant over…for now!)

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That interview and the user experience we encounter is a ridiculously perfect example of a management that has lost 100% touch with reality.
Phew, this leaves only very little hope that things will get better in Hamburg.

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Taking advice from this thread, I’ve just downloaded and installed the W11.1.20 update the old-fashioned way and it worked perfectly. I’m still using the eLicencer and that is the way it is going to stay - so no more Wavelab and Nuendo updates for me. With the introduction of the new licensing system Steinberg have managed to turn me from an enthusiastic long-term customer (going back to the Pro24 days) into a newly-minted EX-customer. Well done chaps.

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What they archived with me as a customer is that I don’t spend a cent anymore on steinberg products. Relying on a company with such a customer service to unlock my software in 2 years? Not me.

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I’m pleased to say that we fixed the bug on Friday, built a new version, tested it on Monday/Tuesday (it was a public holiday in Germany) and have released Steinberg Activation Manager 1.4.11 earlier this afternoon.

The issue arises from a particular combination of overlapping eLicenser and unactivated Steinberg Licensing licenses which is a relatively rare situation for users to be in. We’ve adapted our testing tools to reproduce this scenario now. Notwithstanding the easy workaround, we prioritised this as a hotfix and I’m thankful to the many Steinbergers who helped us turn it around so quickly.

I’d hope that my presence on this thread and our hands-on approach demonstrates that we are in touch with reality and not sat in an ivory tower somewhere distanced from real users.

Yes, we are confident that Steinberg Licensing is a better, more flexible system, which will come across in my interview about the subject. Nevertheless, of course, there are going to bugs that come up from time to time, more often when it comes to the interaction between Steinberg Licensing and eLicenser (which was the case here). What matters is how we respond, improve things and move forward.

I’m genuinely sorry for any inconvenience you’ve suffered in the meantime and look forward to continued positive dialogue here on the forum which helps us improve things for everyone.

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understood - and of course nobody expects software to be bug free. We all appreciate and are grateful for the quick response you exhibited.

I’m still concerned you are autoupdating via SDA without asking permission. This is a fairly arrogant behaviour (IMO) and as you say “there are going to be bugs that come up from time to time”. This time it was reasonable benign and we caught it quickly enough so it didn’t do too much damage…next time who knows ?

Be aware that even in this instance there are lots of examples where the workaround of enabling licences or logging out of SAM WOULD NOT have been a satisfactory workaround. I can list them but I’m sure you’re aware of those cases.

edit - ben, you obviously haven’t anticipated all of the ‘edge cases’