Is there a way to change spacing options but have it affect only one page? In this case, the second page is exactly like I want it, but the first page would have plenty of room to give a little more space between lyrics and staves, both top and bottom. However, if I go into Engrave options and increase the distance between lyrics and their staff for example, it increase the distance across the whole song, which then makes a third page because the second page no longer has room vertically.
So I would want to increase the padding for lyrics via Engrave options > Lyrics, and Layout options > vertical spacing (for the bottom staff), but have it only affect the first page. The second page would remain unaffected, and the first page would automatically justify the systems as set in Layout options to decrease the gap rather than move systems to a new page.
@Christian_R , thanks for the reminder. I’m so used to using screenshots in other communications (email, etc.) that I just default to that without thinking. Here’s the file:
So I take it from your replies that the best option here is to make manual adjustments on the first page in Engrave mode with the vertical spacing tool.
That’s one quick way. Or you can reduce the spaces and keep them uniform by resizing the music frame on that page. But that results in a page override, the kind of thing that can be lost when the music changes.
A more robust method is to change the frame on the first-page template. This is appropriate if you start each flow on a new page and you want the title and other text spaced consistently (or if you have only one flow). If you bring the top of the music frame down, you’ll want to move the lyricist and composer frames down too, etc. Spend some time experimenting with templates, and you can learn how to avoid lots of manual adjustments.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I don’t think this would relate to my problem… I have played with frames and templates, but in this case I don’t want to move the bottom of the bottom system up any, nor the top of the top system down any. Rather, I want the distance between the top and bottom staves to be increased in each of the four systems on the first page, which in turn will narrow the gap between systems. However, the outside edges of the music frame would stay exactly where they are now, which is where I want them.
I’m kinda thinking I’ll just leave it as is, unless someone knows of an easy solution. Even using the vertical spacing tool isn’t really easy, cause I’d have to adjust the space between the staves, the space between the systems, and then also the lyric lines so they are centered vertically in the wider systems. At that point there’d be more overrides to the default formatting than I like to have.
If I’m recalling correctly, in Sibelius there is a control for the proportion of stretching allocated between staves vs. systems by justification. I don’t think there is such a control in Dorico.
But if you increase the 2nd percentage under Vertical Justification to 100%, or very high, Dorico will also stretch the spaces between staves within a system.
Right, the justification of staves had somehow slipped my mind, even though I am familiar with it. In this case, it is already justifying staves and systems. Because there is three verses, I do still think it could look better with wider systems and less space between systems, but the realisation that Dorico is doing that justification gives me further confidence that it’s fine as is. Thanks for mentioning this!
Hi @Lavon , here my try (only with a couple global adjustments, no manual dragging). You can see what I have done (the differences from your file) in the Library manager (loading this file and your posted file and comparing it to this one, showing only the differences). The first thing to maintain the Casting off is to lock the layout in Engrave mode…
Thanks, @Christian_R! I learned some very useful things from your post. First and foremost, I was not aware of the compare options in the Library Manager. This is invaluable!
It looks like most of the settings shown as not equal between the two files are not related, just system settings that you have different defaults for. (Tuplets, for example.) However, I was able to replicate what you did, at least pretty near. From what I can see, you basically just locked the layout, then increased the distance between verses, which did not affect the second page as it only has chorus lyrics.
So suppose that I wanted to keep the verses close together, but increase the distance between the outside verses and any items in the staves. Am I correct in thinking that this would be much more difficult to achieve without messing up page 2?
yes sorry , some settings (differences) where present in my Default library and where not related to the current discussion …but anyway you found the Lock layout thing, and I think I increased minimally the minimum distance from lyrics and other items…
But the one thing that makes the staves distance look more balanced between page 1 and 2, is that …I cheated a little bit : I increased the Space size in the first frame (from the properties setting of the frame brake at the beginning) to 1.6mm (and setting the frame brake property on the second frame/page to your original value of 1,5mm)*.
This balances a little bit the fact that there are 2 staves systems in the first frame/page vs 3 staves systems in the 2 frame/page.
And also generally a suggestion: dealing with other global settings, as the distance between verses etc.: is all a question of balancing things, finding what works for the overall look.
And just at the end it is possible, if really needed, to make manual adjustments on single items. But lets speak honestly: life it too short for them
(I try to follow the 20/80 rule )
: I increased the Space size in the first frame (from the properties setting of the frame brake at the beginning) to 1.6mm (and setting the frame brake property on the second frame/page to your original value of 1,5mm)*.
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