Advice for the next thing to master in Dorico 6

[vintagekmco]

Hello humans,

I would like some advice for what to concentrate on next in Dorico 6. I have upgraded (today) from Dorico 5.

My current level is as follows:

I am principally a “point and click” user, mostly because if I am doing a big project and learn a billion keyboard shortcuts, I inevitably forget them all by the next time I use it.

I know around 20 shortcuts, more or less limited to most of the popovers (on the second or third try), the various combinations of shift/alt/ctrl and arrow keys for moving notes about (mostly on the second or third try), and the standard Windows shortcuts (Ctrl-Z, Ctrl-X and so on).

I write and arrange conventional Western European music, largely free of pictograms, microtones, instructions to stand up and run around the room naked and so on.

I use Dorico because it is the best software; prior to that I used Sibelius 6 for many years because Sibelius 7 drove me potty.

I have an incredibly low tolerance for software (or indeed, software fans) telling me that I didn’t really want to notate my music like that and that I should use a different layout/font/way of expressing myself.

I have no interest in the software making anything other than a cheerful noise to let me know roughly how it will sound. For anything more, I use musicians.

So, on that basis, what should I do next? Are there killer shortcuts I have been ignoring through ignorance, weakness or my own deliberate fault? I was told that “Jump” is something I should investigate. Are there better ways to set up Dorico to notate how I want without constantly having to lock notes to stop it from “correcting”- for example - three crotchets in a 6/8 bar? Will I ever complete a score without having to manually hide at least one score element by colouring it white and setting it to 1% size?

Tips on where to go next welcome…

[TonH]

@vintagekmco

So, on that basis, what should I do next?

I think that’s hard to tell without concrete examples. But my approach would be te figure out what annoys you most. And I presume if I was constantly altering notes which default appearance you don’t like, there is probably a solution somewhere to be found.

And if you can’t find that by looking through the settings or in the manual, just ask on the forum. Providing images of what is happening, and what your desired result would be will be helpfull.

@vintagekmco

without constantly having to lock notes to stop it from “correcting”- for example - three crotchets in a 6/8 bar?

Am I correctly assuming you see this

and want this?

This can be reached by entering this in the meter popover (shift-M)

See also the manual

Creating custom beat groupings for meters

[vintagekmco]

Well that’s exactly the sort of thing that will save me time, thank you!

Here is a concrete example.

I would - let’s say - like to write in 5/4 time, and I’d like the violins to play:

Minim/dotted minim
dotted minim/minim
Minim/dotted minim

Etc.

Regardless of what I try in the settings, Dorico seems determined that all dotted minims should in fact be a crotchet tied to a minim (or vice versa). I have to resort to one at a time, manually changing all dotted minims to minims, locking them, and then re-dotting them. There must be a way to persuade Dorico that I don’t want this, but I can’t seem to find it.

It does this with rests as well, in particular when I wish to split, say, a dotted minim rest into two dotted crotchet rests for legibility reasons (let’s say in 12/8), it strongly objects and I can’t seem to find a setting in the preferences or settings dialogues which will persuade it otherwise.

[TonH]

So instead of

You want ?

I reached this by setting this in Notattion Options in the Note Grouping section

Be aware that Notation Options are set per flow, so be sure you have selected the correct (or all) flow you would change at the right site of the panel.

See more here

Changing the note grouping for 5/4 time signatures

[vintagekmco]

Again, excellent thank you. I had found that dialogue box, but it hadn’t occurred to me that changing the note grouping to 1+1+1+1+1 would be helpful - I assumed (not unreasonably I think) that it would result in great hordes of tied crotchets and no minims at all!

[TonH]

As a beginning user I am, this surprised me too, but because the manual section I linked to mentioned this, I thought I’d give it a try and it resulted in what I thought was your goal

Optional: If you chose Irregular simple (1+1+1+1+1) and want to split beams at every quarter note, you might also need to change your settings in Notation Options > Beam Grouping > Simple Time Signatures Without a Half-Bar.

[Derrek]

From the sound of your initial post, I would suggest you permanently use Forced Duration and forego the many advantages of Dorico that seem only to frustrate you.

It would not be my choice, but sounds like what you would prefer to actually learning to use the various facets of the program.

[TonH]

@vintagekmco

It does this with rests as well, in particular when I wish to split, say, a dotted minim rest into two dotted crotchet rests for legibility reasons (let’s say in 12/8), it strongly objects and I can’t seem to find a setting in the preferences or settings dialogues which will persuade it otherwise.

So you want to go from here

to here ?

I can’t find a Notation or Meter setting for this and had to resort to Force Duration for the rests, but again, I’m a novice user, other members of the forum might have a better solution

[vintagekmco]

Um… Did you actually read my initial post?

I want to learn how to use Dorico better. If I didn’t want to make full use of Dorico, I would have saved myself a small fortune and downloaded the nearly, but not quite as capable, MuseScore for free.

As it is, having paid a large quantity of cash for a program, I’d like to be able to use all of it. Preferably without it being implied I’m an idiot because I don’t magically know what all of the 9 billion settings -many of which make sense- do…

[vintagekmco]

@TonH

As a beginning user I am, this surprised me too, but because the manual section I linked to mentioned this, I thought I’d give it a try and it resulted in what I thought was your goal

If only a paper manual was included, like it was with Sibelius 6! Within 30 seconds of trying to read any given page in the browser, my brain has turned to mush and I have forgotten the thing I was trying to find out…

[TonH]

@vintagekmco

If only a paper manual was included

A long time ago, when software was distribbuted on floppy discs, I read through the 3 volumes of the Finale Manuals.

I’m afraid these days physical manuals are not avalaible widely, but you could always print (sections of) the PDF manual yourself

dorico_pro_6_0_operation_manual_en.pdf

[Derrek]

@vintagekmco

I have an incredibly low tolerance for software (or indeed, software fans) telling me that I didn’t really want to notate my music like that and that I should use a different layout/font/way of expressing myself.

Your words, not mine. My suggestions were well meant given your original post, which I did read. The notation practices Dorico suggests (enforces?) are standard industry practices, but if you do not want Dorico to bother you with those suggestions, then using Forced Duration almost exclusively is what will give you the results you claim to want with as little trouble as possible.

As I said, it is not what I would do, but you should use the program as it serves you best, and even used as such, Dorico will produce vastly better results than MuseScore.

[charles_piano]

@vintagekmco

It does this with rests as well, in particular when I wish to split, say, a dotted minim rest into two dotted crotchet rests for legibility reasons (let’s say in 12/8),

If you ponctually need to replace a dotted minim by two dotted crotchets, you can do it quickly by selecting the dotted minim and pressing O, 66, R.

(“R” might be uncessary depending on your Notation Options)

[LAE]

@vintagekmco

without constantly having to lock notes

On some occasions Force duration is indeed our only choice, but make sure you know about this in the preferences:

[vintagekmco]

Ah, I see. I misparsed the tone of your reply; my apologies.

The sort of low tolerance I was describing is normally twofold:
a) a music program makes a perfectly reasonable editorial change/suggestion, which does not happen to be what I want, but then makes it the absolute devil to change to what I do want. I don’t mind the edit; I do mind the program refusing to accept that, on this occasion, what it suggests is not what I want.

b) - and this happens on this forum a lot - someone says “I want Dorico to do X” and somebody else posts “But you shouldn’t want Dorico to do X because that is wrong”. My response is always “who is writing the music, the composer or Steinberg?”

As far as MuseScore goes, you are quite wrong, by the way. I know that various members of this forum get all hissy because Martin Keary dared to criticise Dorico 1*, but in nearly every case of Western European notated music, you can produce a score which will look every bit as good as you can in Dorico. What is true, is that it will take you significantly longer and you will have to use more janky workarounds to achieve it.

*Which was such an utterly, uninstallably, unusably miserable experience that I stuck with Sib 6 until Dorico 4, which was really rather good.

[benwiggy]

@vintagekmco

I was told that “Jump” is something I should investigate.

The Jump Bar is basically like a search bar for any command or option in the entire app!

@vintagekmco

Will I ever complete a score without having to manually hide at least one score element by colouring it white and setting it to 1% size?

Can you show examples of where and why you’re doing this, and what you’re trying to achieve? There might be easier/other methods. Or at least, confirmation that there aren’t.

@vintagekmco

I have an incredibly low tolerance for software (or indeed, software fans) telling me that I didn’t really want to notate my music like that and that I should use a different layout/font/way of expressing myself.

You set the rules that Dorico follows: but the entire premise of Dorico’s function is “global rules; local exceptions”. So try to set the Options as you want; but there will undoubtedly be occasions when you want to do something else. And Dorico has plenty of ways of doing that – such as Force Duration, setting Properties, or Page overrides, etc, etc.

Hope this helps.

[vintagekmco]

@benwiggy

you set the rules that Dorico follows: but the entire premise of Dorico’s function is “global rules; local exceptions”. So try to set the Options as you want;

This is where I think I could have the most effect for the minimum learning, if you see what I mean.

Basically, I suggest that for most people, they don’t set the rules that Dorico follows; they use the defaults.

Learning what global settings do what will probably speed me up the most per YouTube video watched, although some (not all, but some) of the global rules are written in gobbledygook, so the only way to set them how you want is to try. An excellent example is this:

Where the whole idea that in order to get a dotted minim followed by a minim, you should not select the grouping “3+2”, oh no. That would be silly. You should select “1+1+1+1+1”, because that’s much more sensible…

[k_b]

If I may add a little contribution: there is more involved than just the person putting the notes down and the software assisting with it.
There is the performer, who has to read and perform the music. And here you can see that Dorico is also assisting the performer - not only by producing a score with a good layout, but also with a notation that gives you confidence when reading it. That is why by default the software is set to follow some standard notation rules.
It will help to make the performer have a best possible time.
Your 5/4 is a typical example of this. As a performer I wouldn’t like to feel ambiguous - but that is what your notation choice implies…
It is actually good to give things a second thought if the outcome is not as expected.

[vintagekmco]

I take your point, but I heartily disagree with the example. In fact, that example is an excellent instance of where, in my view, slavish adherence to the rules would make a part more ambiguous.

If I were to see the top example I would assume -especially if I were a brass player - that the tie was a slur, and so I would soft tongue it. A string player might reverse bow direction, or possibly increase pressure slightly.

The bottom part is clear and unambiguous. And less cluttered. I would certainly never allow any score I was typesetting to go out looking like the top example, but yet it takes diving into the weeds of Dorico’s settings to change it.

My point is not that Dorico is in any way deficient compared to any other notation software. It is that, no matter how good the coders are, all software produces elements of nonsense from time to time. The key frustration I have had with Dorico is finding the most efficient way to get it to do it’s most excellent job of laying out 95% of the score, but also persuading it to wind its neck in when it has been caught out talking bollocks.

It’s like dealing with a really talented teenager. Mostly, it’s excellent, but it has a real issue with realising when it is wrong…

[benwiggy]

@vintagekmco

Basically, I suggest that for most people, they don’t set the rules that Dorico follows; they use the defaults.

The defaults are just one combination of the possible rules.

By long established convention, “defaults in notation apps are always wrong, no matter what they are.”