My transition from Finale to Sibelius to Dorico is complete now. I’ve happily done a number of projects as an orchestrator in Dorico, both symphonic and small. And while I really haven’t looked closely at engraving and parts, that’s something I rarely work with but will get to eventually.
But I do make demos of my scores. I’ve been using NotePerformer with Dorico since I started. (I never installed it for Dorico - did it come with it? Or did my Finale NotePerformer automatically transfer over?) I’ve also dabbled with adding some VST plugins - a better piano, a drum set.
But I’ve avoided the whole PerformanceMap/ExpressionMap area - it seems to have been setup in a way that is not very intuitive. And NOWHERE have a I seen a proper guide from Steinberg or a maker of a sound library that might go: “to install our Sound Library X follow this step by step guide. And install these premade Maps that work with our software.”
Am I wrong? I’m looking to upgrade to a library with the same ease that NotePerformer installed. I’m using NotePerformer 4 presently. I see that if I upgrade to 4.5, I can install and use The Spitfire SO with NotePerformer 4.5. And though I’m user (subscriber) to the EastWest library of sounds, I’m willing to make this switch - IF using Spitfire SO with NotePerformer is fairly seamless and doesn’t require a great deal of Dorico programming to make this work.
So my questions are -
after installing Spitfire Symphony Orchestra with NotePerformer 4.5, how much adjustments are needed to make it work in Dorico?
is there way of improving the orchestral sounds in Dorico beyond NotePerformer that is straight forward? Again, I’m looking to not have to spend hours making maps, or figuring out how to import maps - something with INSTRUCTIONS.
I’m between deadlines at present and can have my setup in flux for a bit to experiment.
AFAIK NotePerformer is the only VST that was designed (from the start) to work with Notation apps. All other VSTs were designed for DAWs (and there is no standard methodology for integrating them into Dorico).
For the sound library producers, notation software is still a niche, and I think it’s fair to say that most Expression Maps you will find have been produced by Dorico users (VSL and Xsample seem to be exceptions. There may be others).
I’m no expert in this area. I’ve just dabbled with creating a few Expression Maps, with mixed success. But there are many here who have detailed experience.
The theory is simple: map a notation on the page to a playback technique, and use that to get a VST to play a particular sound via an expression map.
But the complexity comes because each notation on the page can have many different sonic interpretations according to musical context.
(And that is why NotePerformer is so successful - It interprets musical context on the fly)
Good luck with your experimentation. But I would advise doing that experimentation before investing in particular libraries.
Thanks - I had read that notice which is why I was contemplating NotePerformer 4.5 instead of 5.0 - though I believe 5.0 does allow NotePerformer tracks to be adjusted using Dorico’s mixer, which would be nice.
I have seen various postings of user-created Expression Maps (even for EastWest Hollywood SO which I have) - but it’s not clear to me how to integrate them into my setup.
If someone out there is working with the EastWest Hollywood Orchestra in Dorico, I’d happily pay for some Zoom sessions for assistance in getting it set up. Also happy to pay for such a session with orchestration services (my resume is on my site www.starobin.com)
If you have 4.0, I believe you can get 4.5 – but NP is no longer selling the engines that work with 4.5 and let you integrate with other libraries. In other words, I believe the only ways to get NP to work with other libraries are:
You already were using 4.5 and had purchased playback engines, in which case you can continue to work this way
You have a copy of 5.0, before the 5.0.1 upgrade removed all VST3 support
I have a complete Playback Template for Hollywood Orchestra built using Vienna Ensemble Pro 7. There just isn’t a way to load the entire orchestra as individual VSTs into Dorico.
If you aren’t using VEP, this won’t help, but if you are, let me know and I’ll throw some documentation together with the template.
Very few sound libraries provide any support for notation apps – they’re all about making film music in DAWs.
However, many users (and also John Barron on the Dorico team) have created Expression maps and Playback Templates for a variety of libraries.
There’s also a number of Discover Dorico tutorial videos on YouTube about Playback Templates and making your own.
Noteperformer has got all kinds of magic that nothing else has. Even if the sounds aren’t as good, the phrasing and the balance makes it sound more believable, IMO. Whereas other libraries may make a better noise, but the transition from one patch to another isn’t (necessarily) as smooth, and the phrasing isn’t (necessarily) as good without more work.
Generally speaking @benwiggy’s (and others’) observations are “right on the money” in how good NP is. I have been very happy with it in my chamber and orchestral concert pieces.
I would amend only that with certain samples of instruments with quicker-attack/decay envelops, other sample libraries can sound good or better. For example, in my jazz work I vastly prefer Ample Sound’s Upright Bass for playback to NP’s, should you ever happen to be making jazz mock-ups. (In fact, in general NP is at this point self-avowedly weaker in jazz playback. If I ever need a realization for some reason I do lots of audio-only timing and velocity editing in the piano roll editor.
Thank you all - I’m now remembering my days of doing MIDI mockups in Logic or DP (or Vision, to really age myself) and reminding myself of how easier the work is in NP.
But the issue comes down to drums and percussion for me. That’s where I really need to supplement NP with some outside sounds. I’ve replaced bass and piano sounds where the mapping is minimal (just figuring out how to get a bass to play AND notate in the correct octave transposition.) But the whole drum mapping thing with performance mapping is what I have to attack next. Just was hoping for a shortcut (so I could be writing instead of programming.)
If by drums you are referring to drum kit, @MarcLarcher has produced comprehensive percussion maps for the core Superior Drummer 3 (basic and full kits) and my understanding is that SD3 is currently on sale. Search the forum for “Superior Drummer 3” and all will be revealed.
My recommendation is BBCSO. It’s easy to use, a full orchestra fully sampled, cheap and comes with a Steinberg expression map. One stop shopping, and out of the box the latest humanization sounds great. The only missing parts are the unpitched percussion are missing percussion mappings, you have to add that if you want rolls and such.
Unpopular opinion but Note Performer isn’t that great. It was headed for greatness when they added support for 3rd party VST’s, but something went wrong and they pulled the rug out from that on short notice. I gave up, it sounds just ok in the basic mode, but the bugs in the VST mode never got fixed, and it all was pulled anyhow. Yes the humanization is great but the samples are meh. Plus I agree, it is unintuitive and tries too hard to make your life easier, which only works if you ignore it. If you need any control then game over.
Since I tossed it and went straight to BBCSO I’ve been happier, less fussing with the libraries and I have full control and a better sound. Use it with Vienna Ensemble Pro if you want a a full score.
Hey @DanMcL I’m thinking about going BBCSO for my full orch work to get better “mockups” from Dorico. Is it really necessary to go the VEP route? Why? I have BBCSO Pro. Is it due to performance? I’m on a m4 mac mini pro with 48GB RAM and samples are on T7 Shield SSD.
Yes, absolutely, it doesn’t matter how powerful your computer is and I doubt that mini would even be a credible attempt. Dorico just doesn’t like having lots of VSTs and bogs down, entering notes is with considerable lag. I’m on a 24 core HEDT with 128GB ram and all NVMe, no dice.
But put it in VEP and voila, no problem, even if on the same machine. The setup has many other advantages too, just do it.
Actually, the Mac mini M4 Pro is one of the most powerful personal computers at the moment. In any case, I agree that VEP is very handy, and makes managing the sounds more flexible in being a complete separate mixer (with its own set of fine effects).
