After default font change, tempo is missing its notes

I changed my default text font to a custom one, but now find that my tempo markings are missing their note values, like this. How do I fix this? (Note the missing quarter note after the word Swing.)

Screenshot 2023-12-18 at 9.00.15 PM

You need to make sure that Font styles>Metronome music text is set to Bravura text (with a size of 20, IIRC). Chances are it’s set to a non musical font (ie a “normal” font) now…

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Yep, that fixed it. Thank you!

When I changed the default text font, apparently this changed with it. Are there any other surprises for music fonts that might have accidentally changed when I changed the default text font?

I think that’s a problem that has been reported before (by me at least! and not so long ago), but easy to fix.

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Something is really wrong there (at least since Dorico 5). I’ve just tried in a old file to change the Default text font in Font styles (and for some reason, that window opens fine the first time, but then takes lots of time to reopen while doing my little test). I have to click ok, since there’s no Apply button on this window. It was Nepomuk, I choose Academico as Default text. Note that Metronome music font has a parent font which is Default music font (Bravura, for me). I set the default text font to Academico, click ok.
I reopen the Font styles library window, check the font for Metronome music text, and it’s set to… Academico! This is probably why you see so many posts about that problem. It looks there’s something weird (as in “unexpected”) happening here. Fortunately, this is not an operation every user makes everyday, so it does not hurt that much… and as I wrote earlier, it’s very easy to solve when it happens. But I think it would be nice to fix it :wink:

Yes, there was a problem in some earlier versions (I’m not sure which ones, but it was certainly wrong in Dorico 5.0.20) where the Default Music Text Font font style incorrectly has Default Text Font as its parent, which means that when you change the Default Text Font font style, the Default Music Text Font style changes too. We fixed this for new projects in Dorico 5.1, but I guess we should probably also try to fix existing projects when we load them. I’ll look into that.

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Great, I am glad it’s fixed for new files! :pray:

Side note: as someone who’s new to this corner of Dorico, I find myself really confused by the myriad of options subdivided into Font Styles, Paragraph Styles, and Character Styles. In order to change the default text font, I had to do it in two places, and there was no Apply button, and it took several seconds for Dorico to respond, leading me to wonder if I had done the right thing or not. It was a weird experience. It worked in the end, but yes, I’d love to see some improvement here.

If anyone can point me to a well-explained overview of the differences between Font/Paragraph/Character Styles, so I can understand this better, I’d enjoy getting to the bottom of it so I can better control it. Also, once I come up with ALL the settings I like, what’s the process for making those settings the default for all new files? And what’s the process for applying those settings to previously-created scores?

Not a full explanation, but there’s some helpful background in Daniel’s reply here.

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Paragraph Styles and Character Styles are fairly common in DTP and text apps. A Character Style allows you to change a few characters within a block of text, e.g. to an Italic style, or a Drop Cap.

In Dorico, Character Styles are mostly used so you can set a few characters in a Music font (e.g. for Metronome marks), instead of the current Text font. When Character Style is “None”, the text falls back on the Paragraph Style.

Paragraph Styles contain information about how a multi-line block of text appears. So, it includes Borders, Indenting, Justification, line spacing, etc.

A Font Style is more limited: it just sets the typeface, style, and size. It tends to be for simpler things that don’t need so many options. However, it’s fair to say that Font Styles are ‘old’, and will all get replaced by Paragraph Styles in the fullness of time.

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Not all of them, actually. But those that are used for things that are very text-heavy will eventually be migrated to paragraph styles.

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@benwiggy It can be hard, for the uninitiated (like me) to come at this from the opposite angle. Let’s say I’m working on my score, and some “crescendo” text is appearing unusually small across my entire score. How do I reverse-engineer that to figure out where to change it globally? Where in the program (or the documentation) can I understand where to locate the correct parameter that matches something I see in my score?

You mentioned “paragraph styles contain information about how a multi-line block of text appears.” Well, a crescendo text indication isn’t multi-line. So do I look for it in Font Styles? Paragraph Styles? It’s not really a paragraph, is it. As I open those dialog boxes, there’s a myriad of submenus, and although I appreciate Dorico’s attention to detail and flexibility, it’s often not obvious where to go to find the thing I need to change.

My question that kicked off this thread was about a missing quarter note symbol within a metronome marking; your explanation seems to indicate I could have fixed this in Character Styles. But the real answer was in Font Styles.

(I’m using crescendo as a simple example, but in reality, I face this all over the place, wondering where the RIGHT place is to change something in a score. Hence my question about wanting to understand all the hierarchies better.)

You really need to learn to experiment. That is the fastest way most people learn to use Dorico. Create test files, or try something on a copy of one of your own files. And it can be fun, especially when you stumble on something you never would have expected and can file it away for future use.

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It’s certainly the first place to look. :grin:

You’re right that it is a bit arbitrary, and there isn’t a hard and fast rule of thumb. Lyrics, for example, were in Font Styles, and moved to Paragraph Styles in v4.1.

That having been said, things that are “more notationy” tend to be Font Styles. So dynamics, chords, fingerings, text as part of line objects, tempi, etc; whereas “page furniture” (Titles, headers, page numbers) and score “labels” (Staff labels, instrument changes, rehearsal marks, etc) tend to be Paragraph Styles.

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