Align of systems

Good evening,

Why in the attached score is the latest system not automatically set at the bottom of the second page? It seems that there is space enough.
With Photoshop, I copied and past with this result:

Ave Maria Handl 1.dorico (424.0 KB)

Thank you in advance.

Based on the available space at the bottom of p2, the height of that last system, plus the inter-system gap, Dorico’s calculated that there isn’t. Sometimes Dorico gets that wrong thanks to a circular problem when it comes to casting off - as explained by Daniel e.g. here -

You can force the last system onto the 2nd page by adding a frame break at the top of page 2 and setting that break to “Wait for next frame break” in the Properties panel, or you can fiddle with your vertical spacing settings a bit.

Reducing the gap between staves to 5 and the gap between systems to 8 pulls it onto p2, but that puts p1 under the minimum threshold for vertical justification. If you increase the 2 values for vertical justification to 60 and 95 respectively, both pages will be vertically justified, but p1 will have both staves and system justified (filling out the page a bit more). It you’d rather keep the staves close together, and have any extra height left on the page only put between the systems, reduce the 2nd vertical justification value to 60/70%.

You might also want to reduce the minimum gaps a fraction - this is extra space added between staves/systems when other protruding items are present, like lyrics and dynamics.

Ave Maria Handl 1_lh.dorico (420.7 KB)

Changing the Note Spacing (Layout Options) to 3, and then sorting out the Vertical Justification settings to 50% and 100%, gives you this:

Sorting out the dotted note in bar 36, and changing the Note Spacing even tighter for the 3/2 section (and resetting the note Spacing at C) is left as an exercise for the reader. :wink:

Thank you very much. Its good so.
I begin to understand the logic of justification of Dorico.
Best regards.

Thank you also for your tips. I found the tip to sort out the dotted note, but I didn’t find the tip to change the note-spacing on a specific section.

Engrave menu > Change Note Spacing (when something is selected).

Oh, thank you ; every day there are new tips to discover in Dorico.

Same problem, same question that happens often in other cases with this example, I hope more explicit than the later:
Quand nous partimes de France Beta.dorico (382.2 KB)
Why can I not add more space between the staves of the first page ? I can do it manually, in Engrave menu > Staff spacing, but in Layout option > Vertical spacing > Space between systems, I cannot go higher than 9 spaces otherwise the fourth staff jumps to the second page.
It seems that Dorico dont like the staves go lower than this blue margin who appears in Engrave mode > Space between staves :

Thank you in advance.

Your vertical justification setting is set to 100%. This frame (page) is 76.6% full (as indicated by the frame fullness indicator), and because that is lower than the minimum threshold for vertical justification, it is not being vertically justified, instead Dorico is allowing the minimum spaces between staves as set at the top of the Vertical Spacing page in Layout Options and not filling the page/spreading staves out.

Set the vertical justification to e.g. 70% and watch the magic happen.

The bottom blue area is the music frame margin. You can change this (and indeed the page margins) if you like. The bottom music frame margin controls the gap between the page margin and the bottom staff line of the lowest staff on the page (assuming the page is vertically justified).

Thank you very much.
On 70 %, indeed the distance is better, but too great. I had hope to can custom manually.
Meanwhile I have found a solution changing the distance between systems with content.

But in my case the margin was yet at 0.
Best regards.

If the overall height that music takes up on the page is too much, you could increase the music frame margins to squish the music into the middle a bit more. There are various options in this area - including reducing the height of the music frame in which they’re shown.

@Koenraad, the vertical justification settings were indeed what you want, but you were caught in a trap that is one of Dorico’s current weaknesses: justification is for staves and notes, but it doesn’t currently take lyrics into account.

The way around this is to set the proper justification settings (in this case 70% is enough, and then also change the music frame bottom margin to something large enough to accommodate your lyrics. (Hopefully future versions of the software will take this into account automatically.) In this case 0.4" works for me.

When you do this at first, it thinks that the frame is too full, so the 4th stave pops onto the next page. To fix this you can use frame breaks, or, to keep it all automatic, lower the default distance between staves so Dorico doesn’t think the frame is too full. In this case, lowering the inter-system gap to 7 takes care of it. Alternatively, you can use casting off options to force 4 staves per page as well. This basically overrides some of vertical spacing settings.

It’s learning how these all work together that takes a bit getting used to, but once you do you’ll see how powerful they are.

Thank you ; it seems the best solution. Thant is ind of you. I begin to understand a little more the deep end of this problem.

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