Hi - Do you have an update, please, about when this might be implemented - such that, say, a keyboard and separate midi controller can be used together? Back in August @Spork described it as “the next step”, so I remain hopeful. Thanks.
Best
MCDM
Not sure what you mean. Using multiple MIDI controllers is sort of the core business of VST Live.
Hi - thanks for getting back to me. I was referring to the thread on Expressive E Touche earlier this year, specifically:
Hi - Just to ask if there is any progress on combining midi inputs in a single layer, as mentioned above? I would like to be able to run Expressive E’s Lie with the Touche without, if possible, programming QCs. In Cubase, that requires all midi inputs to be available to a single track.
Ok. No, we don’t have that yet, sorry. Port groups are planned but there are some more tasks to be done first.
But you know that you can create a 2nd layer, Instrument set to the shared plugin of the first, but with a different input, right?
Thanks Musicullum
I haven’t, as yet, been able to get this combination working properly using that route, though.
I can even send from 2 tracks. How do you try to approach it?
- 2 Ports in Connections/MIDI/Inputs, one keyboard, one controller
- layer 1 Input: keyboard
- create 2nd Layer, Instrument: Shared/Layer 1 Instrument, Input: controller
That doesn’t work for you?
I’m afraid not - following that exact recipe, the Touche is either not recognised at all or the midi does not work as expected, with different CCs attached to different functions & freezing. I’ll try a support request at Expressive E. Thanks for your help again.
You mean it doesn’t show in Connections? Note you need to restart VST Live if you add a MIDI device for it to register it.
In another thread, another remote controller was used like that w/o problems.
We don’t accept crashes or freezes at all. It would be good to learn how exactly you get it to freeze.
Following consultation with Expressive E, I now (almost) have midi control working using two layers, 1 for Touche; 1 for Equator2 using the shared layer system. Thanks. I am looking for MPE performance from a Linnstrument so all 16 layer input channels are activated.
Whilst this effectively adjusts the macros in Equator 2, any prolonged application of a Touche axis seems to lead to midi information “piling up” - e.g. notes can become blurred and the played sequence will continue after Touche midi control is released (set to 0) and no notes are physically being played. After a second or two, once all inputted messages have been processed, everything goes back to normal and one can continue playing. If midi control information is more modest, the system seems to cope though I note that macro dials may return to 0 more slowly than the physical release. I’ve duplicated the configuration with similar host software where the message pile-up seems not to happen. Can you advise if there is some further setting I can adjust?
Many thanks
Sorry, but can you elaborate a bit more, and possibly more structured? Which devices are beeing used, how many Songs/Parts/Layers, how are those set up, what is beeing sent from which device to where, and what do you expect to happen that doesn’t? Some sort of a flow chart would be required to understand the problem, thanks.
Thanks @musicullum; I’ll have a go:
- Linnstrument in via Layer Input Channels (all 16)
- Linnstrument goes to 1 song and one layer only, the layer loaded with Equator2
- Touche SE in, mapped in Actions and Shortcuts to CCs 50-53, controlling first 4 macros in Equator2 via QC 1-4
- If a sequence is played on the Linnstrument, with Touche holding Macro 1 on full, sounds may start to not match played input, can seem lost or delayed and on stopping playing and releasing Touche, notes may continue to be produced for a second or so, as if everything is catching up, some played notes being late. Expected behaviour would be no further notes after stopping playing/controlling.
- For reference, the macro used above increases LFO frequency and level. With a different preset, for comparison, the macro affects filter cut. Same symptoms.
- I have noticed that the behaviour described in 4) above may not occur immediately, only after a few seconds of playing.
Hope this helps.
Additional update: in Cubase 13 with same setup, symptoms do not occur
Could you open the Midi Monitor, set its input to where your Touche is connected, and look to see if it continuously sends the same data? Then we will need to surpress repeats - we should do that anyway for actions, unless they are toggle types.
Hi
Playing a single on and off (press/release) on the “North” axis of the Touche as accurately as possible, typically results in Midi Monitor showing a string of values rising from 0 to 126, this pattern reversing on release of the controller.
If the Touche axis is held fully on, the display can show a continual set of readings on other Touche CCs. These are mostly alternating values (e.g. 0/1, 14/15), repeated many times but usually pausing at some point…
Repeating the held process can sometimes result in the MidiI Monitor continuing to stream values after the Touche has been released (not being touched at all), eventually showing a 126 to 0 series and then stopping.
Which probably indicates that the amount of data takes long to process because it’s so many.
If a controller sends data and those are propagated to a plugin, the plugin needs to process these data. If there are too many, it may not be able to cope with that. VST Live simply propagates data to the plugin in the order those arrive at the MIDI input.
However streaming two controllers at the same time, the order is not defined and data may interleave.
You said it works with Cubase, so there must be something to it. How did you set this up with Cubase so to control QC from a different MIDI Input?
We don’t know what happens exactly and cannot reproduce it. Could you try to replace Equator2 with another Instrument, say Retrologue, still controlling some QC of that with the Touche as you described? Does it also expose the same kind of problems?
What do you mean by that? MIDI Channels in Layer set to “Any”? Or you have all activated on the LinnInstrument?
Hi @musicullum
Responding to your questions:
In VST Live, because I am using MPE, in Layer - Layer Input Channels, all 16 channels are ticked, corresponding to ‘any’ in the layer itself. When I split the the Linnstrument, I assign channels 1-8 to one half od the keyboard and channels 9-16 on the other, using two layers. In this case, though, one layer and no split
I have tried the setup using Surge XT with an MPE preset. The same issues result when the controller is held on max, played notes become inaccurate and run-on occurs after stopping playing and releasing Touche. With Retrologue 2 using a non-MPE preset, the problems don’t happen. Coud this be anything to do with the way VST Live handles MPE?
In Cubase 13, I have Equator 2 set up on a single instrument track with channels set to ‘any’ and all midi inputs selected. I have created a simple version of the Touche in Midi Remote, simply using 4 knobs to correspond to the 4 Touche axes. These knobs are mapped to CCs 50-53 and in turn govern the first 4 QCs.
Thanks for your help.
There is no special treatment for MPE in VST Live. Data are just passed along, the instrument has to take care of evaluating those.
Will have a closer look if there may be timing issues when QC and MPE data become interleaved.
Possibly this may also help you?
Brilliant @musicullum; thank you. Given the problem as described, which particular setting did you think might do the trick?
Don’t know, this was also related to MPE so thought it might help.