(Ambisonics) Monitoring on a custom speaker setup

Hello,

Is there a way (or what’s the optimal way) to define a custom speaker output setup in Nuendo/Cubase? I’m working in a 16-channel environment that unfortunately doesn’t adhere to any of the surround formats (the positioning of the speakers and the angles in-between are not conform)

I need to use a custom 3OA decoder from IEM or SPARTA to define the speaker setup, but in order to monitor the output on the 16-channel setup, how would you go about it?

Thanks,
RM

IEM Allrad Decoder seems to be the logical choice for your issue:

-> https://plugins.iem.at/images/featured/AllRADecoder.png

Same here. :blush:

Yes, IEM AllRADecoder. What do you mean by “in order to monitor the output on the 16-channel setup, how would you go about it?”.

Put the decoder on the output bus, don’t use Nuendo’s Control Room.

Thanks, however I don’t have problems decoding the 3OA signal itself, but what I’m specifically asking is how to perform a custom loudspeaker routing as explained here: https://plugins.iem.at/docs/tutorial_basicrouting/

But using Cubendo instead of Reaper. I have the same issue with PT as well, can’t figure out how to do a custom routing where I can freely route the decoded signal to a custom 16 channel speaker setup that doesn’t adhere to any of the existing surround presets.

Unless this is only possible with Reaper right now… ?

RM

But how do you listen to the decoded signal on a custom N-channel speaker setup (N = custom number)? Even if I don’t use the CR, I still have to route the decoded signal channels to physical outputs.

In Reaper you can easily do it in a few seconds using the routing matrix. But Cubendo doesn’t allow that, only offering fixed surround presets.

I hope I’m missing something because I don’t want to use Reaper :smiley:

RM

Hi. You cannot make free loudspeakers placements in Nuendo. You can find tips with existing channels either you use Reaper.

NU’s physical outputs are just that: Outputs. You can assign Output Channel 1 to any speaker you like, even if it carries the name “Left” by default. Just remember to leave NU’s panners untouched; maybe it’s wise to switch them off, under those circumstances. :slight_smile:

… everything would be easier if we could assign any plug-in to Nuendo’s panning device slot, that’s true.

Thanks for confirming!

OK so help me out here, first of all by leaving the panners untouched do you mean bypassing the built-in multipanner in the mixconsole (on the monitoring output buss)?

In terms of loudspeaker routing (for 16 channels specifically), the only thing I could think of was routing the 3OA bus to a 22.2 output bus, placing the decoder on the 3OA bus, bypassing the 3OA->22.2 AmbiDecoder on that bus, then routing the 22.2 outputs to the interface and making notes of what “left” and “right” “really” are… with CR turned off. Does that make any sense? :slight_smile:

Or should I place the decoder on a 3OA->3OA bus (with built-in AmbiDecoder on the bus bypassed), set 22.2 output as main mix and monitor it through the CR?

Or… send a copy of the decoded 3OA signal to a 22.2 out and link the first 16 channels of the 22.2?

Thanks!

If the main output is 3rd order, you have 16 channels right there. Just connect them to the audio interface outputs. That’s it.


Rasoul, where are you in Montreal? If you still have problems with that, I’ll go to your studio/installation and take care of this.

@Rasoul Morteza: I am not sure I understand your message exactly. What I would do if I had 16 speakers and if I worked in Ambisonics: I would do 3rd Order as the default mix then using CR to scan the downmix of a 22.2. Then I look at the placement of the speakers on a 22.2 and find the equivalences that go well. After that it would not be illogical to have the possibility of a native 16.0 bus because it would simply be twice that of an 8.0 music (often used in contemporary music) Ask to Steinberg an update? But that of course depends on what you want to do with the elevation.

@Kewl: very difficult to place speakers on a perfect sphere :exclamation:

I’m not sure why you’re saying that to me. My input here is just that it’s possible to connect directly a 3rd order bus to the outputs of an audio interface.

Yes for sure you are right but the advantage of the other system is to be able to use the Multipanner and CR. You connect it of course, but what are you listening to then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_reproduction_systems

Man, I know about Ambisonics. For more than 30 years. Earlier in this thread, I clearly recommended the IEM AllRADecoder. And combined with the IEM DistanceCompensator, there’s no need for the speakers to be perfectly equidistant.

Okay! Cool. The proposition I made was related to the fact stated above, ie. a tip for continuing to use the tools internally. And ok for that then: “AllRADecoder + combined with the IEM DistanceCompensator, there’s no need for the speakers to be perfectly equidistant” > It’s cool if you have the space to do that, you’re in luck!

It was just a supplement or an idea, nothing more. And sorry if the messages crossed.

Thanks for the suggestion! I understand your point, basically what I meant was using a 22.2 main output as a hack (with CR off), as a way of simply routing my 16-channel decoded signal out to the 16 loudspeakers, via the 22.2 output. However, since Steinberg has its peculiar way of automatically putting its AmbiDecoder everywhere and the lack of a proper routing matrix as in Reaper, it’s a bit confusing to me :slight_smile: I did think about using two 8.0 outputs but then it won’t work since 8 of the speakers are overheads/elevated.

Unfortunately the setup I’m using is an octophonic (first speaker 22.5°) surround followed by a hexa overhead setup and 2 directly above the head. It was originally built for VBAP so it’s a bit strange for my work. I’m afraid a direct 3OA->22.2 decoding as you suggest won’t work as the angles and positioning of the speakers won’t map properly. Unless I’m missing something!

Interesting! I thought about doing that but I hesitated since I couldn’t find anything related in the manual. I’ll try that next time I’m at the installation. So basically it would mean that I route all of my 3D panned mono/stereo tracks to a single 3OA bus where I put AllRADecoder + DistanceCompensator with the 16 outputs manually routed to the interface.
I sent you a friend request on FB, if you’re interested we could further discuss the details over there, but it would be nice to have your input onsite indeed. :slight_smile:

Cheers

Exactly.

sent you a friend request on FB, if you’re interested we could further discuss the details over there, but it would be nice to have your input onsite indeed. > :slight_smile:

See you on Facebook!

No you don’t miss a thing. My solution had the idea of being practical but was in no way precise. A kind of substitute to stay in the ecosystem. You have to go for the Kweel solution if you have a speaker layout like yours. Best regards

EDIT @Kwel: “So basically it would mean that I route all of my 3D panned mono/stereo tracks to a single 3OA bus where I put AllRADecoder + DistanceCompensator with the 16 outputs manually routed to the interface. Exactly.” Thank you for this routing. I hadn’t thought of it like that. I may have become too used to working with the built-in tools ? I wish you a good meeting and a good time with these 16 speakers :bulb:

hi,

one of the most powerful and flexible application to convert immersive formats is probably still spat5 within max-msp.
instead, when working witn NU, i’m using spat-revolution: i’ll route my 3rd-ambi-bus via a spat-rev-send-plugin to spat-rev (standalone), with a dummy bus routed back to NU in order for the audio to sync correctly. then converting formats and routing parallel room-types (you’ll find a bunch of them in spat-rev; plus you can customize all the speakers-positions, as within spat5) to whatever you want, hardware included. really powerful.
you’ll get the idea of such a basic routing in the attached screenshots.

best,
benoit



…a few more examples.