Hello
After the end of Finale was announced, I decided to switch to Dorico. Since I work a lot with chords in German-speaking countries, I used the “European” chord style in Finale a lot. You can have a B+natural sign for B and a Bb for B. I miss that a lot in Dorico. Would it be possible to integrate an additional option in the engaving options under chord symbols in the “Appearance of B and B flat” option? That would be great and I thank you in advance for it. I have attached a picture that shows my idea.
Thanks for this suggestion. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a B natural root in a chord symbol shown with a natural sign. Is this common practice in Switzerland?
This is not unusual in German-speaking Europe. There are well-known publishers in Germany, such as Hänssler-Verlag or Projektion-Musikverlag, who write it like this in their songbooks.
When I see a chord with only B without a natural, I never know whether it is a B or a Bb chord. In America and probably also in England, B and Bb are usually written. In Germany, on the other hand, H and B are often written. So you can see that a B can be a Bb or a H. But if you write Bnatural and Bb, everything is always clear. That’s why I would really welcome this option, which is called “European Chord Style” in Finale, in Dorico too.
This is very common in German speaking Europe because it makes things clear as pointed out by @NoglerPa. I use(d) the “European” style in Finale nearly always and it is the first (and until now the only) thing I miss in Dorico. Shouldn’t be too hard to implement and would serve the German speaking community well.
I found a way to do it using Library → Chord Symbols… and changing the Project Default Appearances of the B chord (adding the missing accidental). However this is tedious since I have to change every single Variation like Bm or Bm/A – but it can be done.
P.S.
After doing a little research in my personal library it seems that this chord style is limited to evangelical christian music. However inside this realm it is very common. Besides the publishers named by @NoglerPa there are Musikverlag Klaus Gerth and Christliche Verlagsgesellschaft Dillenburg. I assume Hänssler (the eldest) started it and the others adopted when they started publishing because it was already common.
Editing all possible chord variations by hand with the “Chord Symbol Component Editor” would be very tedious. I think it would be very useful to implement a new option under “Appearance of B and B flat:” with B(natural) and Bb. I really hope that in Dorico Pro 6 we will have this option.
Greetings from Switzerland, Padruot
B natural is indeed limited to Evangelican Christian Music, no other style in german speaking countries use this. For all others it is a must to use H and not B - ortographically correct is A H C D E F G A in German Music Language.
H Flat is called B in German. It is that simple. The other options are weird misspellings in limited contexts.
“weird misspelling” is a litte bit harsh. Dorico offers a gazillion of notation options because it’s never “that simple”.
So I support the feature request to introduce a “B(natural) and Bb” option. This would provide a foolproof option for musicians who live “in between” both traditional options and play a lot of International and German music - and the more traditional users can stick with the options available today.
And if Finale has this option, it can’t be all that wrong…
As a musician I am confronted with a lot of (let me call it) garbage notation almost every day. Wait, almost all editions before computer generated notation offered a tidy appearance, may be except some handwritten sources.
I would hate if we establish bad notation habits, just because they are possible.
I know the above mentioned editions and, without me trying to insult anybody, they are just plain bad.
I must have been infected by some strange virus - since working with Dorico: if I look the at music I get put on my desk, I almost every time feel an urge to rewrite the notation.
I would have liked it if the two flavors of “naming notes/chords” in general (Bb / B / H) had never existed. But this “mistake” was made a long time ago. Now we have to live with it.
You made a similar comment in the thread “Cautionary Accidentals improvement”. And yes, theoretically you are right: One can always figure out, which chord to play. But as a musician switching between the two traditions, I always have to use at least some brain resources to figure out, which chords to play. In sight-reading situations that might be a few resources too many.
Same as with the cautionary accidentals: Nobody is forced to use / write them in their sheets. I am far aways from requesting “B(natural) & Bb” as a new standard. But I can definitely see the advantages of using it here with German musicians. And I have not had a single musician (at any level) play the wrong chord because I wrote “B(natural) / Bb” in a lead sheet.
So please, leave us the option - you do not have to use it. Music & Life is colourful these days
What happened when you wrote “H” in your lead sheet instead?
Yes, I find a musician should be encouraged to use his/her brain, let’s not participate in the dumbing down of them. It took centuries to emancipate them from having servant’s status….
Bb and H is/was never a problem. But with “B” you enter a field of uncertainty. B(natural) helps musicians with all backgrounds / traditions to know what to play.
The whole thread is about removing ambiguity where it might occur. How would your 12 year old know, reading a “B” chord, which of the two possibilities he is supposed to play?
If it’s a key signature with flats it will probably be a B flat chord, if the key signature is with sharps it’s more likely a H chord, same if the lead text or the song is in German. Also most kids have very good ears and instincts. And there is nothing wrong with making a mistake and learning from it.
I really sometimes don’t understand the community here:
A user raises a feature request and has specific examples of how it could be solved, how other applications do it, and under what circumstances the solution would be needed. And the only thing some users do is talk about how the problem does not exist at all.
Maybe we could simply agree to letting the Dorico team decide if a use case is strong enough to be implemented. And if it gets implemented, those who don’t need it still will not need to use it if it’s not their use case. It will not hurt anyone in any shape or form, if this option will exist. Just don’t use it
I mean, if Dorico would work the way I need it to, lots of things other guys totally rely on would never have seen the light of day. Who, after all, needs lyrics? Graphic slices? String players?
However inside this realm it is very common. Besides the publishers named by 
:
