Arrow Keys to Change Pitch - Speedy Entry

Dorico
, ,
1

Like many here, I’m coming from 25 years of Finale. Since the launch of Dorico I’ve considered changing. Now that it is inevitable, I’m excited to learn and the advantages of Dorico don’t even need to be mentioned. It is a much more polished and modern product.

Having that said, note entry is impossible. I can’t even explore the program, for the simple fact that I cannot enter any notes. Well, I can, but more like a random typing monkey.

I’m a speedy entry user. I can’t understand why, even with the (apparently) newer pitch-before-duration feature, the arrow keys to change pitches weren’t considered as something so obvious and intuitive.

My attempt to enter some notes on a measure starts with enabling note entry (N) and pitch before duration. Here’s what happens:

  • A greyed out pause appears.
  • I change it with a note by typing a letter, say c.
  • I type the duration (6).
  • Now I’m left with a orange C. Any attempts to move the cursor for the next note changes this previous C, not the grayed out next note at the cursor.

Is there really no way to change the grayed out note with arrow keys? I can’t find any key assignments for that. Maybe I’m missing out on something important.

This has been mentioned in previous topics:
/844783/75
/888970

I really hope there is a way, either now or in the works. It is impressive how this hasn’t been considered, and is definitely faster than typing the random sequence of abcdefg on aQWERTY keyboard. Note that in finale this was also possible but with sequential key commands: asdfghj.

Reasons are obvious:

  • music frequently is made of scales or small intervals, not only jumps.
  • we can think in intervals, not real notes. Move up a third, down a second, etc.
  • when transposing on the go, interval reading is easier than having to mentalize the real note.
  • some of us (like me) don’t have the first instinct to read as abcdefg. I read notes as Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si. Maybe that’s not the case in USA or German countries, but for me it is an extra step. I have to read a Re, transpose it if working on a transposed arrangement to say, Mi, then remember Mi is an E and find E on my keyboard. The next note, one third down, requires me to jump to a completely unrelated keyboard key of C. Makes no sense at all.

To me, having such confusing note entry system is really impeding the use of Dorico.

6 Likes
2

I am with Mr. Wagner on this one. He and I probably both started Finale long before Simple Entry so we’ve been comfortable with Speedy for decades. I hope we are missing something in Dorico that allows this (for us) tried and true method.

Bill

2 Likes
3

If you’re working on a desk, then I’d highly recommend that you use a MIDI keyboard for entering pitches.

You could also use the ‘virtual’ keyboard in the lower panel.

Screenshot
Screenshot1904×626 56.8 KB

Normally, in Dorico, arrow keys without any modifiers move the selection (in the sense that what is selected is now the thing in one direction further over; not that the selected objects move).

Dorico is fundamentally consistent, perhaps to a flaw, but so that everything works the same way in every mode.

4

This has been discussed at least once, because I know I’ve requested it a long time ago!

I would still LOVE this as well. Many, many Finale refugees would find this eases the pain of note input.

4 Likes
5

Unfortunately I don’t have access to a MIDI keyboard all the times, but that speeds up note entry for sure.

Also, I find it easier and quicker to typeset a small passage or exercise with arrow keys rather than connecting and turning on interfaces and keyboards which are not always connected to a notebook.

Regarding being consistent, well… the insert cursor (carret) is orange and could be considered the current selected element. And obviously arrows keys are the most intuitive way to move something, aren’t they?

6

Here I am, in the middle of creating a forum account to talk about note entry, and I stumble upon this post. :sweat_smile:

I totally agree with everything said here. Note entry in this program feels kind of counterintuitive. Just a simple change, like letting the arrow keys move the note around before entering it, would make a huge difference.

I’m really hoping that with the influx of Finale users, this issue gets some attention. And don’t get me wrong, Dorico looks amazing and is clearly better in a lot of ways. We definitely don’t want it to be a Finale clone. But recognizing when a competing product does something better and finding a way to incorporate and improve that feature in your own program is a pretty noble approach—especially given the current circumstances.

2 Likes
7

You can change the pitch of the gray note with the up/down arrow keys but, unfortunately, only together with holding down the Alt/Option key which makes this input method quite – well – unspeedy.

8

Even with Alt/Option, it moves the previous (already entered) note, which is in orange to me. That is, if I’m doing this correctly. I may be missing something obvious.

1 Like
9

You must ensure that Pitch Before Duration is active and the gray note head is shown at the input cursor (the vertical orange line). In this case Alt/Opt + arrow up/down should move the gray note head and not a possibly selected, already inserted note.

10

I dare say that Dorico version 6 will have some accommodations to Finale users. They certainly aren’t afraid to copy features directly, where appropriate – like audio scrubbing, with the same shortcut keys!

2 Likes
11

1 Like
13

Is that a Mac-specific behavior? On Windows, I can move the gray note with Alt + arrow keys even if the previous note is selected.

1 Like
14

I don’t use pitch-before-duration, and I was completely incorrect above, so I deleted my post.

I find that when I do start note input in that mode, in order to get the grey note to show I have to choose a note, either a letter on the computer keyboard or a key on my midi keyboard. Once it’s showing, I can indeed move it up & down with Option-arrows.

1 Like
15

In one of our many great forum threads about workflow some time back, one every experienced user noted that he prefers Pitch-Before-Duration entry because he likes to be able to play in from his MIDI keyboard and audition things while he’s sketching. If/when you have the time, it could be valuable and fun to try entering a chunk of music in each mode and see which, if either, you prefer.

1 Like
16

I already did this many times, even during my short Sibelius times. Even though I’ve used Dorico since day 1 of its existence, I’m too dumb for duration before pitch. It just doesn’t click for me and slows me down a lot. If I have a MIDI keyboard available, I use it but that’s not always possible, e.g. while traveling by train.

17

Ha! :smile:

Hey, we’ve all got our working methods. I use a MIDI keyboard for entry, but duration first. I just don’t press any keys until (I think) I know what I want.

1 Like
18

Just to add some motivation for Steinberg - I won’t be able to switch from Finale to Dorico until the speedy entry function is included. It’s the method I’ve used for writing since 1999. Fortunately, I’ll be able to continue using Finale until this computer dies. Hopefully a future version will support Speedy Entry.

19

I consider myself very fast using note entry in Dorico, and armed with a midi keyboard and streamdeck I am able to enter things at a blazing speed. I only have prior experience with Sibelius and MuseScore when I was in school, so I never have used Finale. I would love to help the newcomers with this struggle but I am failing to understand what they are missing and what is referred to as “speedy entry.” But then again I don’t use pitch-before-duration all that much, especially if I am writing a passage which will have all the same rhythmic value back to back. I’d love to understand what Finale users are missing, but there are plenty of great ex-Finale users here who can surely advise specific workflow suggestions that may sound familiar to you.

But I will say take heart – Dorico can be super speedy, and I have finished note-entry projects ahead of schedule many times :slight_smile:

2 Likes
20

I’m not entirely sure how Speedy Entry differs substantially from Dorico’s “pitch-before-duration” option, and I used Finale for 35 years.

21

Oh my goodness. Speedy Entry was incredibly fast using only the arrow keys to set the cursor vertically, then numbers to input the note with its duration. Even Dorico’s entry methods don’t compare to it for certain cases. And even after 6 happy years in Dorico, I still miss it.

Bringing it to Dorico would be amazing!! I requested it when I first switched, but to no avail.

8 Likes