Thats too much for us, we can’t test and certify all the hardware and plug-ins of the world to be compatible to Steinberg software. Some vendors do that themselves, though, but not everyone.
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I don’t own the same plug-ins you do, but I just did a little test with 13 of them loaded (all VST2) and everything exported fine.
DSP was at 76%
I was using 610-B, Capitol Chambers, Ampex ATR-102, and Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor. I’m happy to test something if you want, but I obviously don’t own all the same plug-ins.
I tried a mix of VST2 and VST3 plug-ins too. Here I have 24 loaded and it exported fine.
I know I don’t have the V76 plug-in you’re using. It looks like you’re using the Ocean Way and Lexicon reverbs which I don’t have either. Which Oxford plug-in are you using? Perhaps there’s just a specific plug-in that Dorico doesn’t like.
UAD does not yet support VST3 for macOS. Anyone listing VST3 results in this thread is using a PC. The OP is using a Mac.
The problem here is likely one with VST2 and Rosetta.
This thread is a fun read for anyone interested.
I’m on PC, so definitely don’t understand all the workings on the Mac side of things. In addition to all the VST2 plug-ins, the OP is using one UADx plug-in though, and I thought all UADx plug-ins are VST3:
Perhaps that’s the plug-in that’s messing things up. I’d be curious if Export works if he removes that one plug-in.
OK, I assumed that the OP was using an Apple Silicon Mac. Apparently the VST3 is only missing for AS Macs.
Hi guys,
I am using a 2019 intel Mac Pro so no rosetta here, as I mentioned I did a test with different UAD plugins with didn’t include the V76, and result was the exact same crash.
Also 13 plugins worked fine it was 14 that got the crash, I do hope that the forthcoming VST3 version of UAD’s DSP plugins will iron this out.
Fred, I do take good notice of your successful export with 24 UAD plugs on your PC… I am salivating with envy !!
As for general compatibility between Dorico and UA… everything works beautifully if it wasn’t for the problem reported in this thread, which no one as managed to reproduce so far !
I tried adding a couple more VST2 plug-ins, but any more than that maxed out my DSP. I’m guessing you must have a lot to run that many as VST2! I could still export fine with 15 VST2 and 11 VST3 though:
Did you try exporting with only VST2 plug-ins? So removing whatever that UADx plug-in is in your Output Inserts? Or vice versa and only use UADx plug-ins? (Obviously lots of them aren’t available yet.) Just curious if that would make any difference.
I know. And that’s the exact point. Apollo hardware I would say is relatively rare with Dorico users and maybe there are incompatibilities. And I think those Apollo plugins use the Apollo onboard DSP (which is why they are not available for Volt) and just maybe this is all a bit too much for Dorico. My gut feel is that the interface is behind this issue, not merely the number of VST’s.
I honestly would be curious about the actual percentage is. Not high clearly, but I would think still reasonably substantial. I would imagine most Dorico users aren’t using any sort of external interface at all, and then among those that do, something like a Focusrite 2i2 would have to be very popular. For musicians with home recording setups, which obviously increased during COVID, I would think brands like RME and UAD would be pretty well represented. I seem to have a lot of friends running RME or UAD setups anyway.
I thought the whole point of the onboard DSP is to lessen the CPU load by offloading it to the Apollo, right? I would think that would make Dorico’s life easier, not more difficult, but maybe I’m not understanding the computational order correctly.
This is a remainder of the old days, when computers were not as powerful as they are today. UAD have been quite criticized for years for keeping this old system (that forces the users to buy UAD hardware to use the software) until this year. They now have UAD Spark, which is basically the opportunity to use those plug-ins natively without any UAD stuff.
To answer Andro’s question, and although I have a sound engineering background, I suppose many Doricians have done like me, when looking for an external sound card: Amazon, Steinberg, oh, this is what I need (whatever UR242, 22…), it’s not expensive, and there you are. RME stuff is very good, but if it’s only to provide nice sounding output for Dorico, it’s too big an investment IMHO.
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Unfortunately the two UAD Apollo plugins in question are not available in Native and not in the UAD Spark collection. So a possible test to use native versions to check my hypothesis is ruled out.
Not an answer you want to hear but there are a lot of other really good sounding preamps and tube preamps available. May be worth experimenting. Arturia has a V76. I like the Klanghelm SDDR 2 for tubiness. I know you have an investment in Apollo and the UAD Apollo plugins, but this is a potential solution. I am ready to wager a pizza that this is an Apollo interface issue.
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This is definitely true, and this is part of what make this workflow so compelling… finger crossed for the upcoming VST3 version of these DSP plugins.
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There are many possibilities in fact, so far since I can still manage to get the result I am after, even in a rather cumbersome way… I am all good, it’s still less cumbersome than the same workflow in Logic… Believe it or not !!
It’s just that it could be absolutely perfect without those crash.
Here is a quick update before DORICO 5.1 rolls out !
UAD has finally recently released all their DSP plugins as VST 3 !! I have updated them all and did a test using the same project, here are the results :
The Bad
When the project used to play totally fine(The problem was solely on export), it now stutters and sometimes completely halt altogether while making all sorts of clicks and pops. Needless to say that I haven’t even tried to do an export. Disabling more and more plugins gradually fixed the problem which clearly indicates an overload somewhere in the processing chain.
The Good
Replacing UAD DSP plugins by UADx plugins totally fixed the problem both in playback and Export. The CPU load while playing all the instruments + the native UAD plugins was extremely low (15% average on a 16 Core 2019 Intel Mac Pro). The playback felt totally rock solid !!
My personal conclusion
Given the fact that we are yet to hear of any other Program facing the same issue (especially not CUBASE AFAIK) I would be inclined to conclude that DORICO has a real problem dealing with UAD DSP (now VST3) plugins, and this should be addressed sooner than later in my opinion !!
Let’s see how we fare with DORICO 5.1
Hi @Emmanuel_Cambier , have you shared this also with UAD? Because as it appears to me it is rather an issue on their side, but we will have to find out.
And by the way, the audio engine did not change much between D 5.0.20 and D 5.1.0, just a few bug fixes. So basically the same results are expected with UAD plugs.
Btw, are you on Win or Mac?
Hi Ulf,
Thanks for the quick answer !
If this was the case the internet would be full of alarming reports on this subject, starting with the CUBASE forum, but this is clearly not the case, which may indicate that the problem is somewhat on the DORICO side, it is important to find out… as you have pointed out !
If DORICO and CUBASE share the same Audio Engine, and the problem only occurs in DORICO, the problem may not lay entirely in the Audio Engine ?
I have been insisting with many others for the release of the VST3 version of their DSP plugins !!
We are now in contact with UAD about this, but since we head into the festive season, I don’t expect any out come before mid January, I’d say. Thank you for your patience.
Great to hear this Ulf, thank you very much for putting your efforts into this !!
@Emmanuel_Cambier , as I was just thinking about it again, could you try out following?
In the Dorico Preferences dialog, go to the Play tab and scroll all the way down, unfold the advanced options and switch off ASIO Guard. How is the playback doing then with the UAD plug-ins?