Automating Scene Color-Coding and Loop Containers in Nuendo: Is It Possible?

[uaaa]

In post-production, I use EDLs from Premiere or other editing software to mark shots and scenes. I load the EDL, convert it into cycle markers, and then use macros to turn those markers into empty events. This is necessary because in more recent versions of Nuendo, having a large number of tracks, folders, and markers can significantly slow down project zoom functions. The more markers there are, the more sluggish the zoom becomes.

After creating events (based on the shot cuts from the EDL), I organize the scenes on a separate ‘Scenes’ track. Then, I create cycle markers for the scenes and name them according to the video theme (e.g., hangar int, airport ext, etc.). My question is: is it possible, using macros or the Project Logical Editor, to automate the coloring of scenes based on their names? In other words, automatically assign corresponding colors to each scene for better visual navigation.

I’m curious if anyone has dealt with something similar on large-scale projects? Doing this manually is highly time-consuming, though it’s a very important part of marking films, especially for TV series.

Additionally, I wanted to ask if there are any third-party programs or if it’s possible through the Project Logical Editor (though I’m not sure if this can be done in Nuendo) to automate something like a loop container with ambient sounds tied to each scene’s cycle marker. The idea is to have something like an infinite loop of tracks attached to the scene. For example, a scene like “Mother’s House” could appear over 100 times in a one serial season, and manually setting it up every time is quite tedious (although using folders speeds up scene duplication). However, if we could automate the process so that a cycle marker for “Mother’s House” automatically includes all ambient sounds and scene balances (without needing to manually configure reverb parameters and such), it would save a lot of time.

I hope my idea is clear. It seems like this workflow is quite niche, but I’m wondering if anyone else has encountered the need for such automation?

Best Regards, Nik

[hendrix97]

I actually did not know the sluggishness is because of a lot of markers… Maybe it is because the “Show Marker Lines” Option in Preferences? I have to try deleting my 20 Marker Tracks when the session slows down

Well, for the second topic of Ambience dupes, we often use Clippackages. For us they include everything a scene could need inkl. Automation and such. To automate that to a cyclemarker is the tricky part… but do you actually use exactly the same stuff on the scenes without editing it? I like to move stuff around so not everytime “Mothers House” is shown the dog barks at the exact same moment from outside If you do edit it its not that big of a deal to drop in one clippackage when you work on that scene.

[uaaa]

When it comes to bg noises, the dog barks only once consistently (or it randomly repeats in one of the episodes). I have my own large noise libraries, and I record them in bulk. Typically, I shift the entire batch of noises within the event based on the timecode using the Shift key and ask sound engineers not to limit background noise recordings to just three minutes, but to pay more attention to it (40 min and more).

Markers significantly reduce performance. Imagine a 15-episode series, where each episode is an hour long. I use a single timeline for all episodes, which speeds up the workflow, but each marker adds to the load, which is noticeable even on powerful PCs. So, I export EDL to markers and then convert them into separate events via hotkeys and macros, which significantly improves performance.

Even a 90-minute feature film can noticeably reduce performance. Previously, nested folders caused issues (possibly still do, but I stopped using subfolders, and the problem disappeared). The “Show Marker Lines” option doesn’t impact performance.

Clip packages are a great feature, but in my opinion, they aren’t as applicable to ambiences as I’d like. However, I use them regularly for other purposes — they help a lot!

I think the best option for BG noises would be a container (something like a nuendo folder) that, when double-clicked, would expand into another cleverly looped timeline w TC. Or something like that.

[MattiasNYC]

@uaaa

I think the best option for BG noises would be a container (something like a nuendo folder) that, when double-clicked, would expand into another cleverly looped timeline w TC. Or something like that.

If I understand you correctly you would have a folder with backgrounds laid in and then you want that to only play during specific scenes/shots for which you have cycle markers, correct?

Sometimes it helps to think of things in reverse, at least that’s what I’ve found in some cases. In other words rather than trying to figure out how you can fill specific areas with sound that are in a folder or on specific tracks maybe the way to go about it is the opposite; fill the entire timeline with that background and then delete from areas where you don’t want it.

I’m not sure if that works but I figured I’d throw that out there.

Just yesterday I messed with a macro to cut room tone (again) and I figure you could make this work somehow. I think it might be easier to have a long (“template”) section that you cut out from rather than loop content and then crossfade, if you know what I mean.

@uaaa

is it possible, using macros or the Project Logical Editor, to automate the coloring of scenes based on their names? In other words, automatically assign corresponding colors to each scene for better visual navigation.

What have you tried?

[stingray]

@uaaa

I hope my idea is clear.

In my case, no it’s not clear. A screenshot would help a lot.

@uaaa

My question is: is it possible, using macros or the Project Logical Editor, to automate the coloring of scenes based on their names? In other words, automatically assign corresponding colors to each scene for better visual navigation.

Please define exactly what you mean by scene here. ‘Scenes based on their names’ needs a definition of the term scenes in something that relates to Nuendo. By ‘scene’ do you mean the ‘empty events’ you use as ‘markers’? If so, yes you can use PLE to colour events according to name.

@uaaa

However, if we could automate the process so that a cycle marker for “Mother’s House” automatically includes all ambient sounds and scene balances (without needing to manually configure reverb parameters and such), it would save a lot of time.

Not sure I’m getting this either, but I maybe have a vague idea of what you are seeking. In this context, have you considered using Export>Clip Package?

[uaaa]

@MattiasNYC

If I understand you correctly you would have a folder with backgrounds laid in and then you want that to only play during specific scenes/shots for which you have cycle markers, correct?

Yes, a “folder” or container for a specific background noise (BG) environment, with its own internal timecode and ideally its own FX tracks (for those who understand, we often use these in BG tracks in film).

@MattiasNYC

Sometimes it helps to think of things in reverse, at least that’s what I’ve found in some cases. In other words rather than trying to figure out how you can fill specific areas with sound that are in a folder or on specific tracks maybe the way to go about it is the opposite; fill the entire timeline with that background and then delete from areas where you don’t want it.

If I understand you correctly — that’s exactly how it works. The plans are marked as EDL TC, then the scenes are marked, and the tracks are placed into a folder (which I usually close for convenience, treating it as a virtual container) and are then used throughout the series or episodes, but only in the required scenes.
By scenes, I mean specific scenes in the film (e.g., Harrenhall Int or Dragon Stone Int), for which sound engineers record the primary background noises. Then, to add identity or temporal features, individual sounds are added to these background noises. If you export the marker track from N13 to Excel and filter the required scenes, you’ll get something like:

Series Timecodes and Scene “Dragon Stone Int” Appearances

Episode 1 (01:00:00:00 - 01:20:00:00)
01:05:21:23 - 01:06:12:18 - “Dragon Stone Int”
01:08:22:23 - 01:09:11:03 - “Dragon Stone Int”
01:10:33:12 - 01:11:10:05 - “Dragon Stone Int”
01:12:22:09 - 01:13:08:14 - “Dragon Stone Int”
01:14:31:02 - 01:15:12:17 - “Dragon Stone Int”
01:16:45:08 - 01:17:25:19 - “Dragon Stone Int”

Episode 2 (02:00:00:00 - 02:20:00:00)
02:01:12:18 - 02:01:52:05 - “Dragon Stone Int”
02:03:22:10 - 02:03:59:03 - “Dragon Stone Int”
02:05:11:20 - 02:05:50:14 - “Dragon Stone Int”
02:06:24:17 - 02:06:59:22 - “Dragon Stone Int”
02:07:35:01 - 02:08:19:16 - “Dragon Stone Int”
02:09:11:08 - 02:09:48:11 - “Dragon Stone Int”

Episode 3 (03:00:00:00 - 03:20:00:00)
03:01:15:11 - 03:01:59:02 - “Dragon Stone Int”
03:03:20:13 - 03:03:55:07 - “Dragon Stone Int”
03:05:11:18 - 03:05:49:14 - “Dragon Stone Int”

etc

@MattiasNYC

Just yesterday I messed with a macro to cut room tone (again) and I figure you could make this work somehow. I think it might be easier to have a long (“template”) section that you cut out from rather than loop content and then crossfade, if you know what I mean.

Essentially, I would like to have a long (“template”) section with its own timecode where I can loop a 40-minute background consisting of 10 stereo tracks with its own routing for 5.1 or higher. Currently, this is done within a project with 15 episodes, and background noises make up 1/10 of the entire data set. Having such large long (“template”) sections for each scene in the film is quite inconvenient. Considering that this has to be manually adjusted to fit the required timecodes, it’s quite a waste of time (somewhat pointless in the era AI), as if you sum it up for the entire series, it amounts to several full working shifts. This could be done automatically.

Let’s not forget that during post-production, re-recording (mixing) is also required, where automation of reverbs and similar effects needs to be set for each scene. (I remember that this can be done by saving automation presets in the automation panel, but they seem to disappear with versions, probably from N8.)

@MattiasNYC

What have you tried?

No, I’m still trying to figure out what data this can be done on. I know that Nuendo’s internal tools allow you to do something similar (mark plans, but not scenes) by placing markers and painting them in different colors through the Video cut detection tool
but this is not at all an accurate and long procedure with random chaotic colors in the end.

[uaaa]

@stingray

In my case, no it’s not clear. A screenshot would help a lot.

@stingray

Please define exactly what you mean by scene here. ‘Scenes based on their names’ needs a definition of the term scenes in something that relates to Nuendo. By ‘scene’ do you mean the ‘empty events’ you use as ‘markers’? If so, yes you can use PLE to colour events according to name.

In the previous post I tried to explain in more detail.

Clip Package is something different, having little to do with automatic BG layout by timecode, but is a powerful tool in many other cases.

Imagine a 120-minute movie with 40 scenes, where the background consists of 5-10 tracks, pre-packaged into separate clip packages named by scenes. To combine all this with video, a high degree of patience and perseverance is required. However, there are advantages - it hardens and calms you down over the years

[MattiasNYC]

@uaaa

No, I’m still trying to figure out what data this can be done on.

Ok. You really should just try these things before asking. Not that there’s anything wrong with asking, it’s just that it’s so quick to try it out that you save time just doing that.

Once you have your cycle markers created and labeled you can color the markers according to whatever you’re looking for. The caveat is that the PLE will look for cycle marker names and those names will need to be consistent. But the PLE is pretty simple:

Target Filters:
media type / is equal to / marker
name / equal to / [scene-type/location name]
Event Transform Actions:
Set color / Set to fixed value / Color number

You would probably have to string a set of PLEs together to make it work for all location types (markers) and the way to do that is to have a “main” PLE that will call up the other PLEs in the “Post-process Commands” section. Triggering the “main” will cascade down and trigger the rest.

@uaaa

Essentially, I would like to have a long (“template”) section with its own timecode where I can loop a 40-minute background consisting of 10 stereo tracks with its own routing for 5.1 or higher. Currently, this is done within a project with 15 episodes, and background noises make up 1/10 of the entire data set. Having such large long (“template”) sections for each scene in the film is quite inconvenient. Considering that this has to be manually adjusted to fit the required timecodes, it’s quite a waste of time (somewhat pointless in the era AI), as if you sum it up for the entire series, it amounts to several full working shifts. This could be done automatically.

Like I said, it seems like the way to go about it is to fill the length of the episode with each set of background sounds (in folders) and then use markers to cut out what you don’t need. I haven’t found a way to set selection to cycle marker unfortunately so the best I can do is offer the following procedure, which could still save time:

Place each scene type cycle markers on its own marker track. This can be done using a macro to filter according to maker name and then move that marker down X amount of times to an adjacent marker track. You could for example do this once per type and reuse the same 2nd “target” marker track for each by deleting markers after each edit has completed.

Place the folder track with the background audio below that 2nd marker track.

Place playback head at the start of the timeline (or before content begins).

Make a range selection on the 2nd marker track that has the moved scene markers.

Run a macro that does this:
locate next event
right selection side to cursor
next track
delete
previous track
locate next event
left selection side to cursor
-repeat the above steps

That should literally cut out anything between cycle markers on your folder track containing audio for your backgrounds.

Like I said, it’s a bit cumbersome to have to move markers to a new track for all types but I haven’t found a way to make the selection follow cycle markers to automate that. But if people are spending full shifts editing in/out stuff like this then it should help.

[uaaa]

@MattiasNYC

But the PLE is pretty simple:

Thx, MattiasNYC. This method practically works for me, I even supplemented it in PLE, specifying the same colors on the Folders as in the markers. Is it possible in PLE to somehow automatically mark the corresponding color for the track (audio with empty events) under the markers for better readability in the future when creating automation by frames during the re-recording process? That is, under the cyclic marker with a yellow color, recolor all events in yellow, etc.

on the second case, regarding cutting out BG fragments in folders along the track of cyclic markers corresponding to scenes, I am in the process of understanding this method. The macro does not cope very correctly yet - you always need to monitor the range selection, not allowing it to select other tracks and constantly keep it at the beginning, but if you get used to it or improve it, it will probably work properly

Perhaps it makes sense to replace range selection with locators selection by the length of the cyclic marker and cut off from both sides, I will experiment
until I reached zen on this issue.