This System is running Windows 10 Pro (latest build). Previously at the time the thread was started (as the thread title states) I was running Windows 11 (with TPM bypassed) however it is now running Windows 10 Pro again and it has made no difference to the situation re: Backbone 1.5 or 1.1. 1.1 at least comes up but 1.5 is blocklisted in Cubase 12.
Where in the System requirements does it state the processor requirements to run Backbone? The fact is my processor runs Windows 10 64 bit 21H2 or higher and my processor is more than capable of running on it. In fact I am typing this on that very PC! It may be limited when it comes to how many VST Instruments, FX etc. it can run in Cubase 12 but that is not the point. It is a second PC
The Q9650 doesn’t have AVX, it’s about 3 years too old. Sandy Bridge CPUs were the first Intel CPU range to have it, 2011 onwards.
Please bear in mind that an individual program can require the use of AVX instructions regardless of whether the operating system supports it or not.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable in 2023 to expect most PCs still in use to support AVX. 15 years old for a PC is pretty good going by any measure.
Also please bear in mind that the system requirements say a minimum of Windows 10/11 x64 21H2, and Windows Processor Requirements Windows 10 21H2 Supported Intel Processors | Microsoft Learn doesn’t list the Q9650 as a supported CPU for Win 10 21H2.
Gary thanks. So are you saying that all those processors will run Backbone on Windows 21H2 or abov. . Even a Celeron or Atom? That’s the implication here.
Considering this it’s funny how Microsoft tries to block me from installing WIndows 11 on this system, But Windows 10 21H2 and above installs and runs fine! Backbone and Massive X aside. With Massive X Native Instruments made it clear at their Point of Sale.
Meanwhile Intel is set to disable AVX-512 on its 12th Gen CPUs | PC Gamer
You’re blocked from installing Win 11 on a Q9650 because it doesn’t have a TPM, or a UEFI, and it’s not on the supported CPU list. You need a recent CPU (roughly Intel 8th Gen and above) for it to be on the supported list.
No, I’m not saying every CPU on that Win 10 list supports AVX, but the fact that the Q9650 CPU is /not/ on the list means you should not expect it to be supported by either Microsoft or Steinberg if Steinberg specifies a minimum of 21H2. You can check if a given Intel CPU supports AVX by looking at https://ark.intel.com and searching for the CPU model.
AVX512 is not the same as AVX, it is a separate extra set of CPU instructions and some new Intel 12th/13th Gen don’t have AVX512 but do have AVX because they can’t make AVX512 work properly on those CPUs currently.
Again, I realised that. However, regardless, Steinberg need to make all users aware at the point of sale that the processor they run needs to be AVX compatible. If it was just slow that would be one thing. But to be incompatible is completely separate. Backbone 1.1 shows up. Backbone 1.5 doesn’t. It is all too vague.
Anything else is just side stepping. This would make life a lot easier and stop wasting users time and money!
Do you work for Steinberg Gary? It would be useful to know your allegiance. You’ve been very informative, regardless. It’ s a complicated issue. Thank you.
No, I don’t work for Steinberg, I’m just a customer who happens to work in IT for a living. While I don’t own or use Backbone, it’s worth remembering that the minimum system requirements for Cubase 12 (which I do use) is Intel 4th Gen (Haswell) which is getting on for 8 years old now. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to expect software companies to continue to support very old CPUs indefinitely; you have to balance progress with compatibility, and being able to use AVX instructions do speed certain CPU operations up a lot.
Ultimately, that computer has a 15-year-old CPU in it, and perhaps it’s time to consider something more modern. Steinberg almost certainly have a good reason for setting their compiler to make use of AVX instructions to make the software run at a reasonable speed, and that’s “progress” for you, whether we like it or not.
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As I explained I have a modern pc (my main pc) that runs Cubase 12 and Backbone fine (not that it’s anything much to shout about as a plugin) . This is a matter of point and principle that Steinberg have not made it clear to the end user. Not every musician is an I.T. Expert
Backbone 1.5 doesn’t even appear in Cubase 12 on the second PC - it goes into the Blocklist. That is wrong (Big brother)
I’d bet that if “CPU must support the AVX instruction set” appeared in the system requirements a lot of people would not even know what that meant. Ultimately, this is something you’ll need to take up with Steinberg directly, as we’re now going round in circles here.
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Maybe they should write “Buy it on a whim - if it works, fine, and if it doesn’t, too bad we’ll fix it when we feel like it! You’re all beta testers now!”
Trust me I have contacted “support” on this and it is a waste if time. As a company Steinberg seem to have changed - their “support” is not anywhere near where it needs to be in my opinion. Many companies have changed since COVID
No updates in ages despite cries for help!
As Led Zeppelin once sang, “The Song Remains the Same” and there is zero communication from the developer
Any news Steinberg? Been waiting since January now!
I think the silence tells you everything. Expecting to run modern software using a GAN on a 15-year-old processor that lacks the hardware features to make such code run at a reasonable speed is unrealistic.
Very few customers would have any need for a non-AVX build. You already have a more modern machine that can run Backbone 1.5. There is a trial version of Backbone 1.5 now. If anyone with a non-AVX processor buys Backbone without trying it, I would hope Steinberg would offer a refund.
Backbone 1.5 is not the only audio plugin to require AVX. NI’s Massive X requires AVX, as you acknowledge. Whilst I take your point that there is some mileage in stating an AVX requirement up-front, I tend to side with @garyhawkins01 that many users will not understand what that means.
Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware! Plug ins like Backbone are often bought during discount sales periods where there is little opportunity to try before you buy. Ever more reason to be clear. Some users may be running modern day Celeron based pcs for all they know!
Modern-day Celeron CPUs are nothing like the ones from 15 years ago and all will have AVX
shows quite clearly that a modern Celeron G6900 desktop CPU supports AVX(2)
Who said that it didn’t garyhawkins01?
Kudos to Waves - their Scheps Omni Channel 2 plug in seems to come in two versions (Core and AVX). The versions on both my PCs are slightly different. This is the way it should be when it is done right. There should be two versions depending on the processor - that is how you don’t annoy your customers!.