When a key signature change occurs mid-line on an SATB condensing staff, the bass clef signature appears as-if on treble clef.
To reproduce…
Add SATB instruments
Set up S+A and T+B condensing
Add a time sig and insert some bars
Add a key change in bar 2
View in condensing mode
The sharp/flat signs on the bass clef appear in the positions they would if it were a treble clef. eg for G key sig, the # appears on the top ‘A’ line, rather than the second F line.
Presumably it’s looking at the first instrument in the condensing group’s clef when deciding where to place the #, rather than the actual clef in use. Indeed, if I change the tenor part to be in bass clef, they jump to the correct positions, and if I change it to tenor clef they jump to their tenor clef positions. clef bug.dorico (474.2 KB)
Yes, this is a known limitation of using custom condensing groups that use different clefs. When we return to do some more work specifically on condensing of choral music, we’ll sort this out properly.
Please at least consider a ‘quick fix’ to use the same algorithm that you use to position the key sig at the start of a line to position one for a key change.
As it is, this ‘limitation’ (don’t use condensing on staffs with different clefs and key changes) pretty much rules out vast swathes of choral music.
I know there are lots of things you want to do to make SATB condensing better, but most of those are presumably things to improve the workflow and to make more things possible - this doesn’t feel like that, as it is silently producing incorrect output.
I only noticed the error while actually singing in a rehearsal with 40 copies in the hands of the rest of the choir - my proof-reading didn’t extend to checking that the software was working correctly!
The team has been vocal about the limitations of condensing vocal music since the feature was first introduced some time ago, and this isn’t the first thread about it either.
The way to deal with it for now is to just create separate players where you combine things manually at those spots where you need it. Two generic “voice” instruments renamed SA & TB (or simply using the “choir reduction” grand staff instrument) takes care of the problem nicely.
Yes, I’d concur: Condensing’s main benefit (or point) is to consolidate material on one staff in one layout that needs to be displayed separately in another layout (e.g. parts, score).
Assuming that you’re not giving individual parts to your singers , just use different staves, two voices per staff, staff hiding, divisi, etc to achieve any changes in staff topography, if necessary.
Hell from playing piano pieces where clefs can appear anywhere I’d hardly notice - worst was some Impressionistic piece I sight read yesterday where left was treble and right was bass. That double cross was a first (for me), and made for a full stop, usually they’ll be a little more kindly and just have one hand cross the other.
Anyhow pretty minor problem IMO FWIW unless you’re publishing a book or something, took me staring at your example to figure out the problem, I just notice the shape (number) of it anyhow on bigger scores.
, just use different staves, two voices per staff, staff hiding, divisi, etc to achieve any changes in staff topography, if necessary.