Call for workaround: making temporary time signatures turn up in cues

Hi Dorico hive mind!

In the picture below, I would like to give Oboe 1 a cue from the Clarinet in A 1, that (as they usually do) only turns up in the parts. The problem is that the music in the clarinet contains a temporary time signature of 2/4 to run simultaneously and polyrhythmically with the rest playing 6/8 (made possible in Dorico with the famous upbeat-plus-hidden-tuplets-and-time-signatures hack), and when using the cue feature the time signatures are not included in the cue, and also, as it turns out, you can’t hide time signatures on a per Layout basis.

(The piece is in A minor and the score is transposed.)

Do you possibly know a good technique for achieving this that you would like to share?

Thanks in advance!


Of course, making this a real feature as opposed to a workaround would be very welcome. :wink:

The cue will appear as tuplets, which is metrically correct for the 6/8 time sig, in the oboe. The oboist does not care what the clarinet time sig is, only how the notes sound!


I realize that renotating the cue into actual tuplets is possible. However, even though it should sound the same, I’d like the musicians to be able to communicate with each other without confusion. E.g:
Oboe 1: (to Clarinet 1) Could you please play your quadruplets a little bit louder?
Clarinet 1: Wait, what? I don’t have quadruplets!

No re-notation is needed. It is the way Dorico will do it. And I doubt there would ever be more than a millisecond’s confusion.

No, that is only true if the visibility properties of the tuplets are not propagated. This is what the cue looks like in the oboe part without any modifications:
Screenshot 2022-08-22 015602 Dorico does not renotate into tuplets

You might be right, but if there is, I – the engraver – will look bad, and I would not want to risk that if I don’t have to.

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Well mine appeared with tuplet properties, which could be hidden in engrave. Either way, were I the oboist, I would know exactly what the Clarinet was playing.

No you won’t.

Fundamentally the cue does not know there are rests in the oboe part. Had there been notes how would you have expected Dorico to behave?

Then, like I said:

Maybe you’re right. Although, personally, I would be rather annoyed if I discovered that the notation was inconsistent, especially since the consistent alternative would be seemingly simple to notate “by hand”. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree (and preferably get back to the main question that is how rather than if :stuck_out_tongue:) .

I have indeed never heard of a conscious cue. :stuck_out_tongue: Jokes aside though, would you please clarify what you mean?

If I understand what you want (big if :wink: ).

  • Add local Time Sigs to the Oboe part to match the Clarinet.
  • Go to Setup mode and temporarily add the Clarinet to the Oboe part.
  • Hide the Tuplets, then remove the Clarinet from the part. The hidden aspect for the Tuplets remains.
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This would do it if it wasn’t for the temporary time signature that I’d like to show only in the Oboe part and not in the score… :frowning:

Scale it to 1%.

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You could always use MusGlyphs to add it as a text object, then hide as needed.


Thanks for your suggestions! I ended up following @Craig_F:s advice, namely scaling the time signatures to 1%. Crude but effective! :sunglasses: I have not yet dived into the world of MusGlyphs, but from what I have seen it seems like a very handy tool for many unusual engraving situations, and I am sure I will use it some day. :slight_smile:

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I’m afraid you got the clarinetist’s response wrong.

Oboe 1: (to Clarinet 1) Could you please play your quadruplets a little bit louder?
Clarinet 1: Turn around and mind your own f***ing business!

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Not sure what I was thinking last night. But this step was a bit heavy handed. All that was needed was to Propagate Properties on the hidden Tuplets. Or make sure the Global property is set before hiding them.

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Yes, in fact, the tuplets in the image were already propagated, so I only had to do your first step. I usually work in “Global” mode while inputting the music, and switch to “Local” mode while doing the necessary adjustments for the score and parts afterwards.

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