Can't understand how to encode MP3 With tags using MetaData

Hi,

I’ll cut to the chase: Can someone give me a Talk To Me Like I’m A Five Year Old tut on how to create a MetaData preset so that when I render MP3s they -always- have the same info encoded (My name, current year, file name as track name, etc. WITHOUT my having to enter that info manually every frickin’ time!

So far I’ve tried the following:
—I have Cubase 9.030 set up with defaults for the WAV files it generates. It encodes the BWF data, my name, etc.

—I -thought- that when I open those WAVs in Wavelab and Render to an MP3, they would inherit that data, but they don’t seem to.

—So I created a MetaData preset using variables and static info (@Name@, @ThisYear@, Artist Name, etc.) and I select the Inherit Radio Button before rendering and it -still- doesn’t encode that info into the rendered MP3.

TIA,

—JC

Don’t have a good solution for you for mapping/inheriting MP3 ID3 from the cubase WAV RIFF in Wavelab, which is apparently what you need, but I don’t think RIFF NAME (INAM) is meant to be used for your name, but rather the song title. (unless you’re talking about Engineer (IENG). I saw a list somewhere of proper LIST INFO field usage (RIFF ISRC is not ISRC), but I can’t find it right now. I’ll try to find something later.

Try the metadata factory preset called “Complete” (in File Format, select meta-data/specific/factory). That will at least take the destination file name and put it in the ID3 title field. You should also get the current year. You won’t get the Artist Name inherited. You might want to remove Genre if it shows up wrong.

I think it’s been requested to put in standard mappings between RIFF, ID3, Vorbis comments, etc., so Inherit would do this, but it hasn’t happened yet.

You can do it if you put the file in a montage and fill in all the other stuff, but to just do what you want (inherit), it’s not there yet afaik.

As usual, THANKS Bob.

Disappointing for two reasons:

  1. This sort of mapping/integration with Cubase seems so ‘Duuuuuh’ obvious. Most people using Cubase + WL will expect their metadata to flow through seamlessly.

  2. Most of WL is now so elegant that when something like this comes around it -really- sticks out.

PG, if you read this, please take under advisement and correct. The biographical info one enters into Cubase (which is encoded in any WAV Export) should flow into Wavelab rendering. Specifically: Artist, Song Title, Composer, etc.

TIA,

—JC

PS: One minor thing with the Help file. It tells you to open the MetaData Editor, But it doesn’t tell you the procedure to -find- the MetaData Editor. This has happened to me several times… I struggle to find -where- a particular Tool Window is accessed. That should be added to the Help. I know it may seem small, but just -finding- where all these windows are is often NOT obvious.

-I have Cubase 9.030 set up with defaults for the WAV files it generates. It encodes the BWF data, my name, etc.

Sorry, I don’t know Cubase well. I see where you can include BWF, but not where you put your “name, etc”. Where is that?

One minor thing with the Help file. It tells you to open the MetaData Editor, But it doesn’t tell you the procedure to -find- the MetaData Editor.

WaveLab has few menus, and one of them is called “Tool Window”, and there is “Metadata” there. How do you suggest to make this more simple?

I think it’s been requested to put in standard mappings between RIFF, ID3, Vorbis comments, etc., so Inherit would do this, but it hasn’t happened yet.

Next version will have this capability, though this can’t be automatic as there can be too many variations.

That’s great PG. Sorry if I jumped to conclusion here about RIFF. Maybe it’s iXML in Cubase Media Bay.

I agree with this - the WL manual is pretty good, but often times omits the basic info of where to find a tool, and also in many cases omits to state the main purpose of the tool or function. And whether these things are obvious or not, it shouldn’t be too hard to add this info to help file entries or manual.

Answers in-line

  1. Under Preferences there is a General|Personalization tab where you enter your name and your company.

  2. Under Preferences there is a Record|BWF tab where you enter your name and a description field. I assume these are encoded in the WAV file. I’d like these to be auto-magically copied to the rendered MP3 as Artist Name and Company respectively. Perhaps there is already a variable for this?

OR… can you describe how I can make these a default preset in WL so that every time I render -any- MP3 they are encoded onto the MP3? AND can it include a default Picture? I don’t see how to save a Picture as part of a MetaData preset.

Maybe I’m ADHD, but I think you could add the following sentence to the beginning of the MetaData topic:

To open the MetaData Editor, make sure you are in AudioEditor Mode, select the MetaData tab from the top ribbon, then click the ‘Edit’ button at the far right.

Another issue:

  1. I open a WAV file and open the MetaData tab, edit the ID3 tags and assign a picture.

  2. Then I hit the Render button to generate an MP3.

  3. The resulting MP3 contains the default Wavelab logo.

Why? It seems like I have to Render the MP3 and then edit the MetaData on the rendered MP3 in order to have the picture properly assigned.

What am I doing wrong?

Under Preferences there is a General|Personalization tab where you enter your name and your company.

Yes. But why do you expect to see this included in some metadata? This is not the case, and certainly not documented ad such in the Cubase manual.

  1. I open a WAV file and open the MetaData tab, edit the ID3 tags and assign a picture.
  2. Then I hit the Render button to generate an MP3.
  3. The resulting MP3 contains the default Wavelab logo.

WaveLab never put its WaveLab logo in metadata. I don’t know what you did.
This being said, this is very easy to do what you want:

  • open the file format dialog
  • choose mp3
  • choose metadata then “Specific” then “Edit”. And from the dialog, put directly your name or picture.

Render with this preset.

Save this file format preset, then reuse it each time you want to render a mp3 with this metadata.

I don’t do any embedding of metadata in standalone files from other apps so I can’t speak to that, but I have great metadata preset for the WaveLab montage. I have the montage do it for me when I render standalone files from the montage and then it’s automatically done with no additional work.

Any WAV or mp3 files rendered from the montage automatically receive a bunch of into that is pulled from exiting CD-Text that I normally would enter anyway. I add the specific artwork for the project when available. Even if a project isn’t going to CD, I enter the CD-Text as the “anchor” info that is pused to metadata easily.

Some things like the year are constant for all new files, other things specific to the project are pulled from CD-Text info and track number/track total info.

You can use it here if you’d like:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mgh2gf4vzfshg5g/JP%20Start.dat?dl=0

Look for the metadata preset area in the montage to see where your computer stores these and put it there.

When everything is entered as it normally would be in the montage, everything will come out right in the WAV and mp3 file. You can tweak it your needs and Save it again.

Suntower I think I know what’s going on with this particular thing, because it just happened to me when I tried to place a picture for the first time. The ID3 can have multiple pictures (front cover, back cover, a bunch of other names in the pulldown on the right.). You need to remove the Wavelab splash screen or that will be the first picture by default if you start with the “complete” preset. Possibly because you just used the plus sign like I did, the picture you placed will be picture #2. If you open the MP3 you made in Wavelab, open it in iTunes and “get info”, it’ll probably show 2 pictures: the Wavelab splash, and the picture you meant to use.

At least that might be what happened.

I wish that were the case, but I really think this is either a bug–or it’s so non-intuitive it may as well be.

  1. I open a WAV file and open the MetaData tab, edit the ID3 tags and REMOVE EXISTING WAVELAB LOGO, then assign my own picture.
  2. Then I hit the Render button to generate an MP3.
  3. The resulting MP3 STILL contains the default Wavelab logo.

Or…

  1. I open a WAV file and open the MetaData tab, edit the ID3 tags and REMOVE EXISTING WAVELAB LOGO, then assign my own picture and SAVE
  2. Exit Wavelab
  3. Re-open Wavelab
  4. Open WAV file from step #1. It contains the correct picture and tags.
  5. Then I hit the Render button to generate an MP3.
  6. The resulting MP3 STILL contains the default Wavelab logo.

Maddening. It looks like I’ll have to manually open every generated MP3 and assign the picture and tags. Extra work. Boo.

I think that one point of confusion is rendering the file vs. saving it.

When you render a file, special care must be made so that the metadata is transferred to the resulting file.

Rendering a new file and saving and exiting file are two different things.

I just tested on my end and when I have a WAV tagged with metadata, and add the specific art file, the resulting mp3 has the art and metadata.

In the “Format” area of the Render tab, go to “Edit Single Source” and in the metadata section, make sure “Inherit From Source File” is on.
Screen Shot 2017-09-09 at 7.28.07 PM.png

What Justin just said.

It’s because the metadata setting that’s being used to make the MP3 still has the Wavelab splash screen. You have to modify that. Not the metadata tab that’s visible when you open the wav file. That’s just modifying the metadata in your wav file.

In the render dialog:

Format / Edit Single Format / Metadata / Specific / Edit

Than will bring up the Metadata window you need to change for the MP3 render.

Or as Justin said, use Inherit.

Here is a short video that may help:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/87t1ihz4k81o4rw/WL9_Metadata_01.mp4?dl=0

Sorry for my lack of video production skills.

The reason inherit works here, and not with the metadata in the wav files from Cubase is because Cubase is apparently not adding ID3 to wav files like Wavelab can.

Interesting. I’ve never used Cubase. I rarely ever have to add metadata on the WAV/mp3 side.

I just have it taken care of automatically when I render the master files from the WaveLab montage. The right metadata preset will transpose all the basic info you’d want into metadata and you can add the artwork one time and it will be present in all rendered files from that montage. The montage metadata preset is very tweakable and deep as well.

Maybe Cubase is not the best place to handle metadata tasks? I wonder if that is where the WaveLab logo is coming from? In all my years, I’ve never seen the WaveLab logo as part of any metadata. The artwork is either empty, or what I specifically add.

The splash screen pic is there in the “Complete” metadata factory preset on Windows. Maybe it shouldn’t be, because now that you mention it I don’t see it in any of the other factory presets.

I agree, rendering to all different formats directly from a Wavelab project with complete metadata presets can cover everything to all file formats and metadata types. BWF, RIFF, ID3, FLAC (Vorbis comments), and more.

But inheriting from another file currently requires the metadata be of the same type afaik, and most files don’t have all types.

It sounds like that will be improved in the next version so cross mapping can be done, if I understand PG correctly.

Wavelab and Audacity are still the only DAWs I know that can do ID3 in wav. The others are all behind in that regard imo.

Yeah, I’m in agreement. It’s not lost on me how great WaveLab is for this stuff, it’s a big part of why I still use it.

I love that I can set up one montage and no matter what I render be it DDP, WAV, mp3, AAC etc., I can enter in the info one time and have it be pushed to all applicable areas for metadata and CD-Text, and it can be so automatic.

I hear about other people that hate the metadata tagging part of the job after the more fun audio work, and I realize how lucky I have it using WaveLab with good custom presets where this is pretty much automatically done. Between presets and a good streamlined workflow, it’s not even a small hassle.