Change ornament size?

I was going to ask what type of music you are setting. Looks like French Baroque, no?

Please do a search of the forum for discussion on French ornaments. You just hit the issue that Dorico does not support what you want, sadly (I am a harpsichordist and I engrave a lot of Baroque works.)

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They are in the Trills & Ornaments panel.

Not everything is user-configurable yet.

Because, as mentioned, Dorico can’t do French Baroque practice. Frustrating, isn’t it?

So Dorico can place Jazz ornaments before or after noteheads, but it cannot do the same with other ornaments? Is that the state of things, so to say?

Yes these examples are Couperin, and Royer. As harpsichordist (also) I love the French Baroque music. And by coincidence (?) it sounds very nice on the carillon too!

I meant where to find them in the MusicSymbols editor could not locate them initially, but found them already, had not expected these funny names like Doit, Plop etc :grinning:

Yes, that’s correct. As far as the implied “why”
 well, Dorico is still in development. We power users all have our lists of things we want, but those lists get shorter with every release. And the solution here for you is quite easy, thankfully.

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Well, knowing how complicated music notation is, and knowing how complicated developing a good application can be (with all those users asking questions and features), the “why” was not implied!
And since I am far from a power user (just starting) I am still trying to find out what is possible and what is not possible at this moment. Dorico at this moment is a interesting bag of very sophisticated functions and sometimes rather curious omissions, and that is not a problem, but one has to find out the state of things. I hoped that it was possible but I can live with the fact that (hopefully soon) these wishes of my list can be implemented one day :grinning:

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Dorico caters for a very wide range of musical styles. Doits and plops are used by the Jazz community. I’m sure they are equally surprised by the plethora of baroque ornaments.

So for every community I guess there are ‘curious’ omissions.

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@JeroenH I had not realized you were the same person discussing ornaments and carillons etc in another topic. Sorry!

Further to this, if you create a new playing technique and use the SmuFl baroque ornaments you can achieve the following:

image

which is done by moving the sign down and to the right in Engrave mode. Obviously, similar for other related ornaments.

Yes, that will do the trick!
Playing techniques can be moved by X and Y, while ornaments cannot.
And you can put any glyph or graphic in them, so with a little more work it is doable.
Now hopefully I will not have to do an unmeasured prelude with all the “laisser vibrer ties” Ă nd a lot of these Pincé’s and Port de voix signs :flushed:

That’s not entirely true. I don’t know why it won’t work for the first glyph in Edit Music Symbols, but if you input a blank space first, then X and Y offsets will work for the second glyph. Here’s an example where I input a blank space first, and then the X offset works fine on the Turn definition.

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Would’nt that be something in the range of: “oops forgotten”, or simply a programming error?
But I tried this, and could not place an ornament on the same Y-axis, but to the right of he notehead, so a positive X-axis number.

Hmm, actually I just tested and it seems you’re right about the Y axis. If I add another space after the ornament, I can then use it to create a Y offset.

No idea if this behavior is working as designed or is a bug, but it’s certainly a lot of additional hassle that seemingly could be avoided if this editing window was WYSIWYG.

Well, that’s is, in my opinion, too much hassle!
I am quite happy (well sort off) with the possibility of the playing technique workaround, which is rather straighforward.
Maybe oneday it will be possible to change the X and Y for ornaments


Since Dorico can’t playback the French baroque ornaments (unless you muck around with hidden staves and so on) they may as well be playing techniques.

Well the playback capabilities are of (almost) zero interest to me!
If I get a sound that resembles a bit of what I really play I am completely happy, I use Dorico not for composing but for notation/engraving, only when arranging it is nice to have some sound. When I want to hear it, I play it!

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