I’ve just imported a quadrophonic file into Nuendo with 4 channels of audio. The file has the loudest parts in the surround speakeras and the lowest in the front speakers. I want to reverse this so it sounds like it comes from the front and not the back.
Any quick way of doing this in Nuendo?
Basically a plugin or inbuilt feature where I can choose which channel in the audio file should route to which channel in the surround setup in Nuendo? Should be pretty easy but I can’t seem to find anything in the manual or google. Found the routing editor but doesn’t seem to be the one for this (?).
Of course I can import the file as 4 separate mono tracks but I would love to find a solution for this and keep the interlaced file.
As far as I know the easiest way to do this is using the Mixerdelay Plugin (Surround plugin by Steinberg). It allows you to re-route outputs. I uploaded a preset for it.
Quad Flip.vstpreset (1023 Bytes)
Another option might be in the dropdown menu on the the upper right that says Quadro. You can open the Routing Editor there. But somehow I cannot get it to reroute at the moment.
Because it would change the routing settings inside the plugin and would make it unpredictable to the user.
I think the panner inside the channel could help.
Switching it to VST multi panner allows changing the routing.
Thanks @klfnk2020 ! That worked!
@st10ss it doesn’t seem like the VST multipanner can do any routings. Only levels for existing routings. Or is there a secret button?
I also been trying out Anymix Pro which comes with Nuendo. Realised here you can grab a speaker while holding ALT and then you can move them independently and swap them as wanted. Quite nifty - worked also on this. Though the Anymix Pro doesn’t support 7.1.4 which is why I didn’t use it in the first place since that’s the format I’m working in. But on my one track with quadro it works
Any of you know a Nuendo plugin that can downmix a 7.1.4 project to stereo? Doesn’t seem like it. But seems like it should be a standard thing to do for Nuendo if it supports 7.1.4.
The atmos renderer has downmix options, so dive into the tutorials/manuals and it’ll be clear. Install the renderer and Make an atmos session with an atmos track. It’s a medium learning curve.
Yes, you can rotate your channels to swap places. (Front is then back and back is then front.)
Normally such a downmix is easiest with the internal Atmos renderer. There you can also select downmixes. The export is then done via the normal audio mixdown in Nuendo.
In the ADM authoring tool (in the main menu under “Project”) you will find settings with which you can fine-tune your downmix.
I don’t suppose that you have already set up your current project as an Atmos project from the start, have you?
Thanks a lot for this! I’m really learning something these days.
First time entering the immersive/atmos world and learning from trial-and-error for months of buying/returning hardware in the studio (and going broke) to learning all plugins that make it work with hardware which is not ready for immersive (Apollo racks) Great to get some tips and trips from all of you since I’m on a tight deadline with a big theatre production with this. Really appreciate it!
If you do have the time I would greatly appreciate if you could see if I’m on the right direction with this and help me with my question. That would save me tons of precious time
So I looked in the ADM Authoring for Dolby Atmos and I can see the settings for downmixes. I guess I shouldn’t change anything here if I want a normal downmix to one of these formats, right?
I haven’t created the project as an Atmos project since it is not. It’s a multichannel theatre project so no Atmos renderer is going be present on the playback system. The audio files need to work as independent interleaved multichannel files i QLab. So should I still change it to an Atmos project (if possible at this stage)? I guess it’s a requirement to downmix through the Atmos renderer, right?
I thought I could just add one bed to the ADM window and set that for the MASTER OUT (7.1.4 output) or my PRE-MASTER (7.1.4 group/bus) track but when I look in the “source track” none of my 7.1.4 track are there. I can’t choose those. Only mono and stereo tracks are visible? What is the easiest way to do the downmix then? Can I somehow add my 7.1.4 GROUP/BUS track as a bed and then I’m done?
I guess I insert the Dolby Atmos Renderer on the master out bus and then I choose which ever downmix version i need, right? How do I then export through the “audio downmix” feature and get the correct amount of channels on the final files? Will Nuendo automatically know that it’s a 6 channel file if the Atmos renderer is set to downmix to say 5.1?
Sorry for the long text but really scratching my head about these things I thought would be easy
Maybe I’m just missing the obvious - but why then bother about Atmos at all? A discrete multi-channel mix will fit your needs perfectly, I guess.
That would be my question now, too. Since your question from above explicitly referred to a 7.1.4 track, I thought you were preparing an Atmos project.
Then you could just create a 7.1.4 track in Nuendo and then a stereo bus. (This also works with any other number of channels.)
Now when you route the 7.1.4 track to the stereo bus (group or main out), Nuendo will automatically offer you MixConvert. (Can be found in the Surround pan of the 7.1.4 track. Either in the Track Inspector or in the Mixer.) In the MixConvert settings, fine-tune the downmix as needed and then export via the audio mixdown. Done.
There is no 7.1.4 bed with Atmos.
You can also add the Atmos renderer to a project later, that’s no problem.
If you want to work with Atmos in the future, I’ll be happy to answer your questions.
As Dietz already stated, you should use a normal multichannel mix without the ATMOS renderer involved for your theater project…
It depends on the PA system available, what is possible in the theater. And to have the outputs available that are the inputs for the PA system would help to keep the overview of what is happening.
Sooo… I might have been confused myself. I was fiddling with the MixConvert myself but then I got confused when @MAS wrote about downmix in the Atmos renderer. Still learning what Atmos is so hence the confusion I guess. So I’m with you @st10ss @Dietz on what you write.
Seems plausible that if I write 7.1.4 then it can be understood as Atmos. Sorry for the confusion and not clarifying from the start. Just out of curiosity isn’t the 7.1.4 as discrete multichannel used anywhere or is it always used with Atmos? Or is it an area that is not really defined yet with all the new immersive formats?
So the MixConvert would be the way to go. Though I tried it and seems like I loose a lot of information, especially in the low end from the side and surround speakers. The low end becomes almost inaudible when I downmix to stereo for the director. Any idea why this happens with the MixConvert?
@MAS so what you mean is to create the output bus with the amount of channels as needed for the final export file and then mixconvert fixes the downmix while the output bus fixes the correct file type? So for example to get a 5.1 file via audio export I need a 5.1 output bus, correct?
@MAS as for Atmos I do definitely want to learn this properly! Didn’t invest in 11 speakers, a sub and an extra Apollo rack to not dig into Atmos If you’re up for it I’d gladly do a Zoom with you and get to learn the most basic stuff while doing it online inside Nuendo. You seem pretty knowledgeable with Atmos. What is your rate for something like that?
@Toni_Martin Atmos is just one proprietary method of reproducing multichannel audio among quite a few others. Due to the sheer marketing power of Dolby, it is now considered “standard”, to a degree that the product name is used by many as a synonym for “3D audio” - but actually it is not a necessity to use it at all.
While its idea of metadata-driven “objects” is great for presenting “audio for media” in auditoriums of various sizes and shapes, the concept also has some serious flaws and unnecessary intricacies for other tasks. If your work is to be played in one clearly defined environment, I would mix it for the monitoring equipment there, bypassing any further complications that would arise from format-specific requirements imposed by Atmos.
I plead guilty: it’s all my fault.
As Dietz wrote, Atmos is only the last link in the chain. If you take object-based audio seriously, then there is no need to think of any proprietary format when mixing. In reality, of course, things are different. We also do authoring for (UHD) Blu-rays. And in this domain, Dolby has tremendous market power with Atmos. I can still wish that MPEG-H will prevail. But that will probably not happen in this lifetime. I would prefer an open standard, but Dolby has created facts.
So as long as you have the choice, you should go for an open format (MPEG-H) or play back the respective file as a multi-channel wave. In the end, you should be guided by the situation on location. Anything else would only be unnecessarily complicated.
The situation is different for end customers. You can’t get around Atmos there.
This can have several causes. Unfortunately, I know too little about your project and the settings you use. I would have to guess in this case.
Do you have a separate low frequency track (LFE) in your mix?
You can also use MixConvert as an insert effect on your (group) track. (You can find it under “Spatial + Panner”.) Then you can set the target format directly in the plug-in.
Then export the track in which you placed MixConvert via the audio mixdown. Done.
Hi @Dietz Even though I have not much experience with Atmos yet I completely agree with you. I was just confused since I thought I need to use Atmos Renderer to downmix any multichannel. Pure confusion from my side
Thanks @MAS ! Very fond of your descriptive and precise explanations Helped a lot.
It’s been forth and back with the theatre and 7.1.4 was not possible because of the size of the new theatre space. It would require addition 20-30 speakers and cost a fortune. So at the moment they landed on 5.1.4 and looking into immersive systems in the future.
So I created some PRE-MASTER Groups in 5.1.4 and I’m routing everything to this and also created a MASTER OUT in 5.1.4. Using the MixConvert to create stereo files for playback on rehearsals since there is no surround there.
Is it correctly understood that Nuendo does the downmix automatically if I route an already existing 7.1.4 to a 5.1.4 group?
I still want to learn Atmos properly since I will be going more and more from just doing music for films to also do sound design and mix for films. I have an upcoming short film now and next year maybe a feature documentary and a tv series. So really need to know my stuff by then.
Thanks all of you for fantastic help here! <3
@Dietz I can see you’re from Vienna! Funny. I did the music for “Geschichten vom Franz” last year and Marco Wanda did some songs. Working on the sequel now. We did all the sound and mix at Grand Post, do you know them?
I’ll reply in a private message.
Usually yes. However, depending on how your project is set up, the signal does not always end up where you really want it to be. That’s why you should not trust Nunedo blindly.