Changing key signature causes red signpost... sometimes

The score I’m entering (piano solo) has several key changes in it. I’ve noticed that whenever I switch back to the initial key (key of C in this case), a red signpost appears at that point of change showing the new Key. Why does that only happen for the key of C?

it probably happens so it can be distinguished from the “atonal” key.

I get a similar problem. If I select all and delete all the music, I get red signposts on every measure with the 4/4 time signature.

I get lots of strange results every time I use Dorico 2. I have been reluctant to report them because many are reportedly fixed in the new patch. But the patch is not here. I understand the desire to try to pick up as many fixes in the patch, but I think we are at the point that the users need all the fixes we can get at this point, even if that means many bugs will remain.

I don’t think the red signpost is strange or unintended behaviour. My understanding is that signposts appear whenever something has been created that would otherwise be “invisible” (frame breaks, spacing changes, key signatures with no sharps or flats, etc).

If you find them unhelpful, you can always hide them (individually or en masse) with View > Signposts.

See the Dorico 1.2 version history, here:

Dear cparmerlee,
I happened to experience the time signature thing. On an XML import, never on a 100% Dorico file. It was quite uninteresting a duty to get rid of those signposts, but once I had finished that, the file was perfect. I’m not sure this is really a bug. I certainly would be happy to know the way to get rid of those unwanted signposts at once, but it did cause no harm to the music contained in that file. I’d rather have the team implement new important things rather than making things that do work (even if not as smoothly as others) more pleasant. My two cents.

I’ve just reproduced the time signature thing in multiple files that originated in Dorico 2. I have no idea what’s going on with that.
Still, the key signature thing is clearly a feature, not a bug.

Ok Leo, thanks for correcting me :wink: We still can hide those signposts when they get in the way, I created a shortcut for that (rather useful indeed, even in “normal” conditions).

We are very keenly aware that users are waiting for important bug fixes for the new features introduced in Dorico 2.0, and you will soon have them: we are in the middle of the holiday season and key members of the teams both in London and Hamburg are away at the moment, but it is our intention to have the update with you in the next couple of weeks. In addition to fixing quite a number of bugs, there are some useful new features, and we are very excited to get the update into your hands.

The behaviour Craig has reported concerning doing Select All followed by Delete leaving behind lots of red time signature signposts is counter-intuitive, but it is for the time being the expected behaviour (and has been that way since before Dorico 1.0, as far as I know!). When you select a single barline and hit Delete, a time signature signpost is left behind because there is still a bar division there, if there is an earlier time signature that has yet to be countermanded. So when you select the whole flow and hit Delete, it is like deleting all of the barlines individually, and Dorico creates overridden time signatures at each of those rhythmic positions. It’s a side-effect of the fact that bars have to be brought into existence specially in Dorico rather than all of the music being fundamentally organised into bars.

If your goal is to remove all the music, I’d suggest either deleting and recreating the flow, or selecting the first bar of the flow and typing Shift+B to open the bars popover, then type e.g. -1000 to delete (nominally) 1000 bars (if your flow is shorter than 1000 bars, the whole thing will therefore be deleted), or using the new system track to remove everything.

By no means am I complaining about the waiting period for the next update. But I am very intrigued by something.

I have seen this idea of “holiday” and “holiday season” a few times in the last few days. What “holiday” is being observed, or is this a company “holiday”? Being from the U.S. sometimes we aren’t always aware of what the rest of the world is doing.


Brits call vacations holidays. So, he’s saying people are on vacation.

That’s nothing compared to my favorite British-ism, “bits and bobs.”

I know it’s vacation. But I’ve seen “Holiday Season”… the U.S. doesn’t have “Vacation season” necessarily. So I am wondering if something is being observed that we in the U.S. do not observe, or if this is just a company wide “holiday” where all the employees are given time off at the same time to relax.


It’s just people taking time off in the summer. Well deserved from all the work they have been doing, I’m sure you’d agree.

But the earlier time signature was the same (4/4) everything was 4/4. If I had entered many different time signatures, then leaving behind signposts might make sense. But it seems strange and redundant to leave a whole series of signposts that are identical.

This came up as I was creating lead sheets. Once I had one lead sheet looking the way I wanted it, I simply copied the Dorico file so that I would have all the settings. I did not think about deleting the flow. I am worried I might lose some of by settings by doing that. But maybe not. I will try that the next time.

Regarding the timing and content of the patch releases, I think what is happening here is that many people are looking upon version 2 as the first almost-production version and are putting it to hard tests in the real world. This is surfacing many things that are bugs, unexpected consequences, misunderstandings or whatever. It is actually a positive sign, but it is probably a bit overwhelming at this stage.

And I don’t think most Americans understand the European holiday schedule. Years ago, I managed a team that included many Europeans and I was keenly aware of how inflexible the holiday season is. Until you mentioned it, I had completely forgotten about that. I am not critical. I wish American workers had such an arrangement. Americans could benefit greatly by adopting some of the principles of the European lifestyle.

As others have mentioned it is vacation. What we call “holidays” the Europeans refer to as “Bank holidays”.

It is very common for businesses to most shut down the entire month of August. It is not a bad system. Nobody expects to get much done during that time. Employees get lots of time off and come back very refreshed and productive. Any American who has ever said “The USA is the greatest country in the world” really should take some time to travel to Europe and elsewhere. There are elements of the American system that are becoming more and more third world. We don’t necessarily have all the best ideas.

Ok, thank you for that answer. And that makes sense why the term “season” has been used. August is the “holiday” month, or “holiday season”.

I grew up in Frankfurt, Germany (father was in the U.S. Army), and do not remember August being a period of time off. However, I was young. So there is a lot I might have missed.

Thanks again!!! I appreciate that nice bit of information.


And if he was on the base, the US military probably did not follow the European norms.

My information is dated. I am assuming August is still mostly a shut-down month. Maybe not.

Dear cparmerlee,
You’re still accurate. Here in France the holiday season spans between july and august. The children do not go to school and the parents use to take their two, three (or more) weeks off to share some quality time with their kids.
For musicians, it’s the period with a lit if festivals : those who work in orchestras might be on holiday vacation (because the season ends in June and begins in September), and summer is the perfect moment for personal projects. Those like me (ooerasingers) who are not attached to a theater do work a lot during the holiday season : it is our duty to bring culture to people when they have time and desire to receive it!
I’m looking forward this new update that does really look promising!

Another thing to bear in mind about “holidays” is that in the U.K. we basically don’t have air conditioning. Some office buildings have AC, and some very modern housing stock has AC, but the vast majority of our housing and office stock is old and gets extremely hot at this time of year. Furthermore, the trains (both above and below ground) don’t have AC so nobody wants to commute in August. We simply don’t get much good work done during the summer, particularly when there’s a heatwave like this.

I’ve just spent two weeks in New York and find it totally bizarre that within a few days I was thinking “can’t wait to get on a nice cool Subway train”…