Choosing Lining or Old-style Numerals for Verse Numbers

The particular font I want to use for verse numbers uses Old-style figures for numbers by default, which I don’t want (where digits, like 3, descend below the line). The font also defines Lining figures for numbers (where the digits never descend or ascend), but I don’t see a way to instruct Dorico to specifically use the Lining version of the numbers. Is this possible? If not, are there plans to add this option to Dorico?

There is a Font Style just for the Verse Numbers. Can you not choose a different, but all-but-identical font that does lining figures?

As I understand it, the 2.2 update expected at the end of this month will be the last update to version 2, so if it’s not in that, your next chance will the paid update to D3, whenever that comes.

That’s an OpenType feature that I too hope Dorico will support in the future.

In the meantime, my workaround was to install FontForge, make a copy of the font, and then copy the lining figures I wanted over the default. This sounds easy when I type it, but FontForge is not the most user-friendly software, and I doubt I could replicate the feat without some significant clicking around. But I did manage to make it work once!

I have workarounds I can use to resolve this problem, so this is not something I need fixed urgently. The particular font face I want to use comes in both OpenType and older PostScript Type 1 file formats, and with the PostScript versions there are actually different font names for the different number styles. But PostScript is being phased out, and I wanted to see if there is a “right” way to select number figures in an OpenType font with Dorico.

FontForge is indeed a difficult application to use, though if the font I wanted to use was only available as an OpenType file, that is what I’d reach for to extract the Lining number glyphs as a new font (or, if you happen to own a license, the much nicer but very expensive FontLab).

For verse numbers, where we can’t choose the font glyph that is used, it could be useful if Dorico allowed us a way to specify which set of number glyphs in an OpenType font should be used (Old-style vs Lining, Proportional vs Tabular). Or maybe Dorico just always asks for Lining numbers when using an OpenType font (since I suspect that’s what most people will want).

“Citation required.” :smiley:
Type 1 fonts are still supported on MacOS, and Apple has given no indication that they are deprecated. I can’t find anything to suggest that Windows is different in this regard, either.

Alternatively, you may want to check the licence of your font, as some foundries allow (or used to allow) the conversion of a font to a different format, as long as you’re not using both on different machines.

Never assume that everyone wants the same thing as you! :smiley: I certainly prefer non-lining figures for verse numbers.

Type 1 fonts are likely to die over time, simply because they don’t support all the advanced typography features in newer font formats. I can’t imagine a professional font designer would create a new font only in Type 1 format now.

But they will probably still “work” for as long as PDFs are around, since the format of a PDF is basically “PostScript plus some extensions.”

Indeed: they are a ‘legacy format’. Adobe haven’t sold one for well over 10 years.
But that’s a long way from “being phased out”. There’s a lot of documents out there that depend on them, and if MS or Apple deprecated or dropped support, there would be a lot of angry people.

… whose open letters regarding the issue might be rendered unreadable if Word were to suddenly drop PostScript, so, we’d be good either way!

As a font geek, I’m all out for Dorico having the best typographic engine it can have.

Any news regarding this topic? I am considering buying a font with old style numerals per default and lining numbers as opentype alternative. It’s the only thing that’s holding me back to spend money on this font…

Dorico still doesn’t support advanced OpenType features like non-lining figures, small caps, Swash, etc. But you could always create a version of the font with the numerals switched using FontForge, or similar.

But I have found out that Apple now describes Type 1 fonts as a ‘legacy format, which might not work’. They kept that quiet. Obviously, PostScript the language is still a fundamental part of CoreGraphics and the CUPS printing system. T1 fonts are probably the only thing that still use the resource fork of the filing system, which has been deprecated at least since Lion, if not since OS X itself.

I just wanted to nudge this topic, since it came up again in my work. Being able to access open type features in fonts would be so awesome! And I think it’s a feature that would suit Dorico extraordinarily well, given that Engrave Mode has such a DTP vibe.
I guess the team is well aware of that and there must be some technical limitations making this somewhat difficult to implement, but still, I keep on dreaming. Let’s see what 4.0 has in store.

EDIT: After reading into it a bit I saw that it is a Qt limitation and that there’s no change to the OpenType support by Qt in sight, so I think we have to keep working around it.
I found OpenType Feature Freezer to be very helpful in this regard. At least on Windows it is a command line tool, so it took a moment until I understood how it works, but then I could quite rapidly bake some OT features into an alternate version of the main fonts I’m using. It’s worth a look.

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