Chord symbols should follow User Customized Spellings (and more)

[fender_rhodes]

Chords are now linked to the chord track in the new score editor. Even though I haven’t worked with this before, it seems to be a practical solution. Thanks to the recognition via pressed keys, the input is very fast. Unfortunately, my interpretation of some chords differs from the interpretation of the chord track or the score editor.

C-D-E-G is Cadd9 for me. The chord track and the score editor say C9. But for me, C9 is an abbreviation for C7/9.

The same in minor. C-D-Eb-G is Cm add9 for me. Cubase says Cm9. But for me this is an abbreviation for Cm7/9. The same with 11.

C7/9/13 recognizes the chord track as C7/9/13, but the score editor makes it C7add9add13. Who has that many fingers? Seriously, who writes something like that? If it’s not wrong, then it’s at least extremely unusual.

Unfortunately, the score editor always inserts an add before the 9 in the dominant chords. For me, however, C7/9 and C7add9 are different chords.

You can define your own chord symbols in the preferences. Unfortunately, these only have an effect on the display in the chord track. The display in the score editor remains unchanged.

This makes the score editor unusable for me. Especially as many other functions that are important to me are missing (e.g. freely placeable text, hiding staves).

So the new update will end up being very expensive for me, as you still need Dorico to get there. In addition, the workflow is slowed down because you have to switch between 2 programs.

Maybe Steinberg should think about offering customers updating from C13 a discounted version of Dorico. In my opinion, that would be fair for the step backwards you have to accept.

I don’t think Steinberg will deliver all the missing functions. After all, why should a customer buy Dorico when they get almost the same functionality with Cubase?

I think the strategy is that you can only create simplified rudimentary scores with Cubase. For everything else you need Dorico.

Best regards
Thilo

[Synthplayer]

@fender_rhodes

Chords are now linked to the chord track in the new score editor. Even though I haven’t worked with this before, it seems to be a practical solution. Thanks to the recognition via pressed keys, the input is very fast. Unfortunately, my interpretation of some chords differs from the interpretation of the chord track or the score editor.

I think that the link to the one chord track is too restrictive. I have had use cases where I had notes for different musicians with different chord symbols in a project. How can you achieve this then?
Also, the chord track is interpreted within the DAW. But what if I want to have it separate from the notes?

@fender_rhodes

C-D-E-G is Cadd9 for me. The chord track and the score editor say C9. But for me, C9 is an abbreviation for C7/9.

The same in minor. C-D-Eb-G is Cm add9 for me. Cubase says Cm9. But for me this is an abbreviation for Cm7/9. The same with 11.

C7/9/13 recognizes the chord track as C7/9/13, but the score editor makes it C7add9add13. Who has that many fingers? Seriously, who writes something like that? If it’s not wrong, then it’s at least extremely unusual.

Unfortunately, the score editor always inserts an add before the 9 in the dominant chords. For me, however, C7/9 and C7add9 are different chords.

I can confirm all of this. The automatic chord recognition often leads to undesirable results. That’s why it would be best to also manually enter add2, add9, sus4 with any combination of extensions. What’s so difficult to implement that?

@fender_rhodes

You can define your own chord symbols in the preferences. Unfortunately, these only have an effect on the display in the chord track. The display in the score editor remains unchanged.

Oh, I don’t know that. I have to try it out.

@fender_rhodes

This makes the score editor unusable for me. Especially as many other functions that are important to me are missing (e.g. freely placeable text, hiding staves).

Yes, I have that feeling too. But at least you can easily add something to the chord symbols on paper.

@fender_rhodes

So the new update will end up being very expensive for me, as you still need Dorico to get there. In addition, the workflow is slowed down because you have to switch between 2 programs.
Maybe Steinberg should think about offering customers updating from C13 a discounted version of Dorico. In my opinion, that would be fair for the step backwards you have to accept.

Yes, such offering would be a good thing. I’m at least thinking about testing Dorico.

@fender_rhodes

I don’t think Steinberg will deliver all the missing functions. After all, why should a customer buy Dorico when they get almost the same functionality with Cubase?

I think the strategy is that you can only create simplified rudimentary scores with Cubase. For everything else you need Dorico.

Yes, that could be, but we don’t know. At least the reaction from the Steinberg people here is very constructive and promising.

best regards

[mlib]

I hope manual entry of chord symbols will be allowed in an upcoming update. I’m not a fan of the Chord Track and would much prefer to just enter the chords by hand.
Here are a few more things that seems off with the Chord Track:

Why is Dominant 11th Chord disabled?

[image] Why can’t I have a C11 chord? Workaround would be selected Bb/C, but I prefer to conceptualize it as C11 when I work, as I see it more of a tension on C than an inversion / slash-chord.

[fender_rhodes]

@Synthplayer
First of all, thanks for your answer!

@Synthplayer

I think that the link to the one chord track is too restrictive. I have had use cases where I had notes for different musicians with different chord symbols in a project. How can you achieve this then?
Also, the chord track is interpreted within the DAW. But what if I want to have it separate from the notes?

You are right, the connection with the chord track restricts the use of chords in the score editor. It would be best if you had the choice between the chord track and your own chords in the editor. Isn’t that the case in the old editor?

@Synthplayer

That’s why it would be best to also manually enter add2, add9, sus4 with any combination of extensions. What’s so difficult to implement that?

From me 100% approval!

@Synthplayer

@fender_rhodes

You can define your own chord symbols in the preferences. Unfortunately, these only have an effect on the display in the chord track. The display in the score editor remains unchanged.

Oh, I don’t know that. I have to try it out.

Okay, it’s in German, but I think you’ll find it:

In the boxes on the left you can select the notes that should be included in the chord. The left column shows the normal display in the chord track, in the two to the right you can specify your own display, on the far right is the result.
And it works as you can see:

But it has no effect on the score editor:

@Synthplayer

But at least you can easily add something to the chord symbols on paper.

You can use the text tool to write custom chords. This works well as you can change the size and baseline options. Apart from the fact that this is very slow, the disadvantage is that they are on a different line to the chords from the chord track. That’s why you have to write all the chords with it if you want it to look nice.
Left chord written with text tool:

@Synthplayer

@fender_rhodes

I don’t think Steinberg will deliver all the missing functions. After all, why should a customer buy Dorico when they get almost the same functionality with Cubase?

I think the strategy is that you can only create simplified rudimentary scores with Cubase. For everything else you need Dorico.

Yes, that could be, but we don’t know. At least the reaction from the Steinberg people here is very constructive and promising.

I’m following your thread about the missing functions in the score editor and of course I hope that the most important ones will be implemented. Having to work with 2 different programs would really be a step backwards for me. Especially since my working time on the computer doesn’t pay well enough for me to want to spend unnecessary time on it ;-).
Basically, I’m very happy with Cubase, even with the new update. I like the new tools (modulators) for sound design. And I was also looking forward to the new score editor, as it looked like it would give me better results faster. And basically I also like the new editor and think Steinberg’s move is right and overdue.
But as it is, the more you look forward to something, the greater the disappointment when it doesn’t live up to expectations.
Of course I could continue working with the old editor, but if I want to open the project in a few years to make a few changes, it may no longer be possible (e.g. Windows 13 and a new computer ;-)).
So I really hope for a quick solution to the problems!

Best regards!

[steve]

There are many words in this topic, which boil down to the missing important feature: The new Score Editor doesn’t inherit the customized chord spellings set in the dialog.

I edited the title to reflect that.

[Synthplayer]

Hi,

ok, one could do it that way.
But I think it’s more about a fundamentally flexible chord input on the sheet music, which is independent of such things like chord track or also eg. harmony/scale.

best regards

[steve]

I do agree, All sheet music I produce uses chord symbols, and Cubase has never really been flexible enough.

In my ideal world, Cubase would have a method that allows one to create any arbitrary chord spelling, and to assign arbitrary notes and voicing. They would exist on the chord track, and get all the benefits the chord track system offers, while not requiring the chord track to be visible on the project timeline, similar to how the tempo track works in that regard.

What I would not like to see is two separate systems like we had in the legacy score editor. If you recall (or used it) there could be chord symbols side-by-side and one could be from the Chord Track, and the other could be created in the score editor, with no obvious difference in their display. Not fun really.

[StefanFuhrmann]

Thanks for the summary steve. The new Score Editor should follow (or have an option to follow) the Event Display / Chords & Pitches preferences as well as it can. We are looking at adding settings to provide more flexibility for that in a future update.

Synthplayer, you’ve talked about the need for chords that are separate from the main chord track in other threads. As I replied there, we are considering how we could achieve that in future, but can’t make further promises.

@fender_rhodes

So the new update will end up being very expensive for me, as you still need Dorico to get there

Try using the different Dorico variants. Cubase Elements also gives you access to Chord Symbol options, which may give you sufficient flexiblity.

[steve]

Thanks @StefanFuhrmann

But also note that

@fender_rhodes

C-D-E-G is Cadd9 for me. The chord track and the score editor say C9. But for me, C9 is an abbreviation for C7/9.

Most jazz and pop players will read C9 as a dominant chord, whereas Cadd9 is just a major chord with an added note. This looks like a mispelling.

[Synthplayer]

Hi,

yes, and I would even say that “add” is a purely musical instruction; it just adds a note to the chord without it being seen as an extension.

How you actually play it depends on many things.

best regards

[fender_rhodes]

@StefanFuhrmann

Try using the different Dorico variants. Cubase Elements also gives you access to Chord Symbol options, which may give you sufficient flexiblity.

That is the answer I feared. The chord symbols are only one of several points where the range of functions is limited. Therefore, I will probably need the Pro version of Dorico to have the same possibilities as with the old version.
If I had known this, I would have bought the Pro version during the 50% loyalty offer in spring.
Maybe there is another opportunity for such an offer for C14 customers who lack the functionality of the old editor? That would be great!

Best regards