Chords ignore accidentals when entering in pitch before duration mode

[wbl]

Screen capture video here: https://youtube.com/shorts/m8IimC-06cs

It doesn’t matter what I do, if I go to add a Bb under the C#, it’ll always come out as a B#.

[MarcLarcher]

There is a setting in the Preferences>Note input>pitch before duration where you specify if the accidental is input before or after duration. That might be the culprit ot that behavior? (I never use pitch before duration, so I know I have NO expertise about that, but if there were a real problem there, the forum would be flooded with reports…)
Try these settings:

If the C were not sharp, you would have noticed that selecting the # would have raised it (after input) — of course, I’m supposing you have the “After inputting note” choice selected.
Hope it helps!

[wbl]

I use before duration + before inputting note like the screenshot you provided. The only way to change the B for me would be to highlight it afterwards and manually lowering it to a Bb, even if I specifically chose accidentals before inputting, and chose the flat accidental as shown in the video.

Even if I’m doing something wrong, I don’t think Dorico should let me choose a flat and result in a sharp though. It feels very unintuitive.

[MarcLarcher]

Are you saying that with the setting Accidentals before inputting note, you have that behavior you show in the video?
I’ve just tried, and it doesn’t. But I can’t get the same result as yours if I set it differently, because then the C gets the flat. Unless you have just entered note entry mode to add that Bb?
I certainly don’t mean you are doing things the wrong way. I just want to make sure the Team can reproduce that behavior — they do need that to fix problems.

[wbl]

I may very well be doing things the wrong way. But I want to know why and how to fix it. No matter what I do, the B goes with the C# and becomes a sharp.

And that’s correct, I set the accidentals to be before inputting and I’m also on pitch before duration mode. I added something else in a different measure and that worked. But going back to this measure, the B just can’t be bothered. I feel this is a bug because my experience is not consistent.

[wbl]

Here’s an extra illustration of a similar but different issue. https://youtu.be/jVxBHPDC4Ec

If I have chord mode on, as you see here, trying to enter a E natural will turn into an E sharp. Doesn’t matter if I toggle flat or natural or sharp, the E will stay sharp. If I switch off chord mode, things will go back to normal. If I switch on chord mode again, now it’s stuck at E, doesn’t matter if I try to add sharp or flat, only E natural is notated.

I might be doing something wrong but please let me know what. I feel like I’m going crazy here…

[Derrek]

Have you considered posting the section of the Dorico file giving you trouble so others can investigate it themselves?

@dspreadbury

4. Post a project, not a picture
If you are having a problem with Dorico, the fastest way to get the help you need is to post the project, or a part of it, and not to post a screenshot. If you post a picture, you will almost certainly find that the first person to respond to your thread asks you to post the project. You may be concerned that the musical content of your project will be judged, or stolen. While we cannot guarantee that this will not happen, because of the supportive nature of the forum, this is vanishingly unlikely.

[wbl]

Given that I encounter this issue even with a brand new project, I don’t think it matters. But here’s a new empty sheet that is giving me this issue if that helps.

Both a screen capture of the issue and the empty project that is giving me this issue are in the drive here: Microsoft OneDrive

Any help welcome.

[Richard_Lanyon]

I see from your project that you’re using 5.1.70. Could you try updating to 5.1.81 as we made some changes to pitch before duration input that might affect this.

[wbl]

Updated the version. Still not working. Again, here’s a folder with a test project and a screen capture here: Microsoft OneDrive

Please tell me what I’m doing wrong. This is driving me crazy not being able to engrave anything with accidentals without going back to edit every note.

[Richard_Lanyon]

In order for us to investigate what we really need is a keystroke-by-keystroke example of it going wrong. For example, I’m trying this:

1. in Preferences set pitch before duration, and accidentals before notes
2. open the project you attached earlier
3. select a bar rest
4. hit Enter to start note input
5. turn on chord mode
6. press “b” on the computer keyboard
7. press 6 on the computer keyboard

EXPECTED: I get a B natural crotchet
ACTUAL: as expected

The problem with looking at the video is that I can’t tell what keys your pressing. Alternatively, if you could capture a video of it going wrong, and then do Help > Create Diagnostic Report and attach the report here, I can look at the sequence of commands in the application log (which is in the diagnostic report).

[wbl]

Project file, video file, and diagnostic reports are here: Microsoft OneDrive

Key-by-key sequence (feel free to cross reference with my video):

1. Set preferences as detailed.
2. Hit enter to start note input and hit q to turn on chord mode.
3. Press “=” to enable sharp.
4. Press “5” to place note.

EXPECTED: a G#
ACTUAL: a G natural

5. Delete note.
6. Press “-” on keyboard to enable flat.
7. Press “5” to place note.

EXPECTED: a Gb
ACTUAL: a G natural

8. Delete note.
9. Press “=” to enable sharp again.
10. Press “5” to place note. (Expecting G#, result is still G natural)
11. Press “-” to enable flat again.
12. Press “5” to place note. (Expecting Gb, result is, again, G natural)

[Richard_Lanyon]

The problem here is that you’re never choosing a pitch for the notes - you’re not typing in the letter names A-G. You’re using the Raise/Lower Shadow Note By Step commands instead, and these change the pitch of the shadow note, but if you change the pitch Dorico doesn’t know whether you still want the same accidental or not. (This is particularly a problem in chord mode as you might be adding several notes at once, all with different accidentals.) I wonder whether you might prefer to set “Specify accidental, rhythm dot and articulations” to “After inputting note” instead.

[wbl]

I don’t understand. If the shadow note is on G and I enable sharp, why does Dorico not know I want it to be sharp? This works perfectly outside of chord mode.

Without changing the settings (entering accidentals before note), what am I doing wrong?

[Richard_Lanyon]

If you aren’t in chord mode then Dorico doesn’t need to be fussy about whether you type the accidental before or after you’ve chosen the pitch, because you can only ever input one note at a time, so it is always obvious which note the accidental applies to. In chord mode you could be adding several notes at once, so Dorico has to be more strict about when you type the accidental - you have to type the accidental before you choose the pitch, and ideally you need to choose the pitch by typing the name of the note you want. So, for example, if you want an A# quarter note, you need to type:

• # for sharp
• a for A
• 6 for quarter-note

[wbl]

Thank you. This sequence works when not using pitch-before -duration. Is there a way to use pitch-before-duration with accidentals?

[Richard_Lanyon]

The sequence I suggested is with pitch-before-duration. With pitch-after-duration you’d have to put the duration first:

• 6 for quarter-note
• # for sharp
• a for A

[wbl]

(post deleted by author)

[wbl]

Got it. This is solved.

Now, my understanding that is now proven wrong, was that, in pitch-before-duration, I am allowed to use just arrow keys to place the shadow note. Is there anyway so that I can add a sharp or flat to the shadow note so I do not have to use keys to specify the note? I’m turning this into a feature request basically. I’m very used to using arrows and sharp/flat indications in the old Finale Speedy Entry way. I’m happy to learn a new method, but just wondering if it’s possible under chord mode.