Clef and Transposition Override Issue for Baritone (from treble clef to concert-pitch part)

I am struggling to make a part for a Baritone in Bass Clef with the original part in the Full Score as a Baritone in treble clef (transposing up M9). However, I cannot get the new part to show the bass clef and do the correct rendering of the original part in concert pitch using the Clef and Transposition Overrides. Here are the screens. What am I doing wrong?


Can you post the Project? I canā€™t see whatā€™s going wrong from just the screen shots.

Just a thought, the overrides are per layout. So, if you want something changed in the score as well as the part, you need to do an override in the score as well.

Clef and transpositions also wonā€™t override an explicit clef, i.e. any clef that youā€™d input directly into the music. For those, you can hide/show or change the clef shown according to the layout transposition (e.g. treble clef in the concert pitch score, bass clef in the transposing part).

Hi everyone,

I also have an issue that concerns the clef and transposition override window. So I decided to put it here.
I use Dorico 4 and the situation is as follows:
In the score I have a Tuba in C. From this, I want to create a transposed version for a Tuba in Bb. This is very common in the German region where I live. Said version includes a transposition by 2 octaves and a whole step, as well as a treble clef.
The transposition works perfectly. However, the clef is not updated. So it shows a G in the correct pitch but with the wrong clef.
Here is an image of the result (including the override window)

By the way: I really love your notation software.

Cheers,
Sebi

Okay, it is me again.

I tried to replicate the issue in a new file. So I created an empty project, added a Tuba and duplictated the layout with the transpoistion and clef change. Strangely, now it worked perfectly.
This got me thinkingā€¦
The first project was based on a musicxml file exported by Sibelius. Could this have created the issue?
Sorry if I spam the forum.

One common issue with xml imports is that the clefs are explicit. You can select them and delete them. Then, an implicit (and default and probably right) clef appears. Itā€™s totally possible that deleting that problematic clef would have solved the problem :wink:

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Super Marc, thank you very much. That solved the problem.

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Hi, your message was in 2021, but Iā€™m having the exact same problem in 20024. In Finale, Iā€™d just choose Baritone BC and out it out pop, perfectly. Today, I tried to type Baritone, and it kept giving me the equivalent of Baritone TC - it was in the treble clef and transposed. At first I thought it was an instrument problem, like maybe I should have chosen Euphonium. Nope. Then I looked for Baritone BC or Baritone TC in the instrument list. Nope - only one ā€˜baritone.ā€™ Then I figured out how to change the clef, but it moved all the notes up an octave. I brought them down. The I realised it was still in the new key, so I went hunting to see how to change the keys. However, Iā€™m not a brass expert - I only know that baritones are non-transposing transposing instruments, so they are listed as Bb but still play in C. I didnā€™t know how to configure the settings. In the end, I told my beginner baritonist, ā€œSorry - Youā€™ve got to wait until I figure how to transcribe your musicā€¦ā€

Help!
Cheers,
Amy

Hi Amy ā€“ In my band experience (and according to Wikipedia) Baritone is always a transposing instrument in Bā™­, normally written in treble clef. (Iā€™m not sure exactly what you mean by ā€œnon-transposing transposingā€ but to me that sounds like tenor trombone, which plays a Bā™­ harmonic series in first position but always reads concert pitch.)

In the brass family in Dorico, both Baritone and Baritone Horn are ā€œTCā€ (in Finale-speak).

But if youā€™re sure you want the part at concert pitch in bass clef, there is a very easy solution: Edit > Concert Pitch ā€“ automatically shows Baritone in bass clef.

Or you could change the instrument to Trombone and rename it ā€¦

Hi, I donā€™t think I explained myself well.

In Finale, when Iā€™m adding instruments, I can choose to add Baritone TC or Baritone BC. Baritone TC will play in the treble clef, will be transposed, and will have the same fingerings as the trumpet. Baritone BC will play in the bass clef and will have different fingerings.

Screenshot 2024-09-07 at 8.57.08 PM
When I click the ā€œAddā€ button in Finale, I get this:
Screenshot 2024-09-07 at 8.57.50 PM

My problem is that now Iā€™m switching to Dorico and I need to write out a part for my beginner Baritone BC player. However, in Dorico, it only ever gives me the option to have a type of Baritone that defaults to treble clef and transposed. How do I get the type of Baritone BC that is in the bass clef and that is not transposed?

Thanks,
Amy

I was thinking about this. I guess the only downside would be you wouldnā€™t hear a baritone - youā€™d hear a trombone, right?

Cheers,
Amy

Right ā€¦ But the Concert Pitch method is much easier ā€” I would do that unless you need to write in bass clef in C in a score with other transposing instruments.

Iā€™m in an International School and we have a school anthem that a former teacher wrote (a simple leadsheet) and which I arranged for concert band. Iā€™ve just had a baritone player move up to honour band and this is the very first score Iā€™ve ever arranged using Doric Pro. Itā€™s all going well except for this blasted baritone thatā€™s doing my head in. I was going through the instrument settings and there was a bunch of stuff about concert pitch, but fiddling with it didnā€™t help. I think Iā€™ll just put it down as a trombone, just as an emergency stop-gap, and then Iā€™ll have time later in the semester to leisurely sit down and learn Doric Pro properly. LOL - The Finale demise happened at the start of the semester, just as Iā€™m arranging all my music for the semester. Not good timing for me, Iā€™m afraid. (grin)

Hi, okayā€¦ I solved the problem and feel a bit stupid now - the instrument I was looking for is called ā€œBaritone Hornā€ in Doric Pro 5. But thanks for jumping in to help so quickly - I really appreciated your helpful responses, especially as I was writing on an old thread.

Oh, right, I omitted that there are of course Baritone Sax, Baritone singer, etc.! When you type your search string, and an instrument is selected in the 2nd column, you can see what family it belongs to in the first column.

Another good thing to know is that itā€™s perfectly easy to change the instrument even after youā€™ve written the music!

And yet another, more complicated thing on this subject, for the future: Clef and transposition overrides ā€¦

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Doricoā€™s default database does not have Baritone BC. Use Euphonium and rename it.

Hi Everyone,

I run into this issue too from time to time. In my case I have inputted a Baritone TC in my score, but want to create an extra part written in bass clef for some of the other players in my section. In Clef and Transposition overrides all you have to do is select bass clef for ā€œclef for first staffā€ and set the written middle C to C4. That should do the trick.