Click at start of track (now resolved and not WL7 fault)

WaveLab
1

(EDIT: This issue has been traced to a CD Player and not Wavelab 7)

I was previously using Wavelab 5 and had to always meticulously listen to the cd gapping on the actual CD-R to ensure random clicks did not appear between the tracks (specifically the starts). This would seemingly occur for no reason usally on 1 or 2 tracks. I thought this issue was resolved in WL7.

i.e. there was no click in the original audio but only on disks that Wavelab had produced.

I have burnt around 10 masters with WL7 and thought this issue was gone as no such clicks have been heard. But it appears once again in WL7 for the first time. A 16 track CD, Track 12 when played in a portable CD player has a click on it. (the one I use to listen to all disks, all the time)

Previously I used to adjust the track end/cd markers a little, manually and this solved the problem as a workround. This click is being very stubborn and is not responding to nudging track markers along as WL5 did.

I thought it might be specific to the cd player I am playing the disk in. In fact in one computer CD drive
it plays without a click. When I ripped the tracks concerned created in WL7 I noticed a tiny peak on the meter in Adobe Audition it is silent (inaudible) but the meter does peak to -61dBFS. I checked DC offset and it is 0.7 pct in the file in question, i.e. almost nothing.

I have burnt 4 disks so far and moving markers is not working. I tried buring to an image fist, no difference.
Audio between pauses is activated.

The PQing is being done against a single 38 minute 16 bit wav file with silent pauses between tracks, no such visual meter peak in the audio exists in the bounced file. The disk contains ISRC and CD Text, no barcode.
I used the wizard initially and then manually inserted PQ markers for end and starts.

I am using a Plextor PX-716SA and previously on my old DAW *WL5) where this happenned much more freqently a PX712A

It has only been through consistent QC that I have caught all of these clicks by listening on a cd player.

It is starting to hack me off now and I want to get to the bottom of it.

Any assistance or suggestion to try and resolve it would be very helpful.

I wish I had another consumer CD layer to listen to the disk in right now.

(Incidently when I was using SADiE 5 more often with the same PX712A never once did any such clicks appear on any disk over 3-4 years)

2

Try to render to a DDP file set. Then import the DDP file set into the montage. Can you see the click? If yes, then that’s a WaveLab (or plugin) issue. Else, that’s a driver/media issue.
In the first case, did you try without plugins?

3

I never use WL with any plugins at all, purely for simple disk burning.

There are not even any fades it’s a simple 16 bit wav and markers.

Will try the DDP, thanks.

(I have just re done the entire disk minus sub code data to save time and see if
this have made a difference I tried making “silence after start marker” 0 instead of 15 I think which was the default
but left the ensure minimum values check boxes ticked.)

Just to add master is bypassed and burn is 16x which generally produce C1 averages of 0.2 per sec with Taiyo Yuden disks. (Though I am using a cheapo TDK’s just for this mass coaster generation session!)

4

The Re PQ has made zero difference, click still there, will try DDP with original montage.

5

Amended: Pointless post that just confuses.

6

Hi,

In the CD Wizard

Do you use “Quantize CD markers to nearest CD frame” ?

and check with more CD players and maybe other CDR media brand

I know TY is the one to use but the CD car player maybe doesn’t like TY !

regards S-EH

7

Hi S-EH, thanks for input, I am not using a car cd player.

I did check Quantize markers to nearest frame.

As mentioned using TY for masters I never had this issue ever with SADiE and the same burner 712A and TY’s.
For these tests I use TDK disks purely so I am not wasting my TY’s, the problem is identical with TDK and TY.

I imported the DDP image from the disk and will try a burn from that, when I play and listen to the
imported DDP montage I do not hear any click as on disk.

I am burning the disk as I type.

Appreciate the nice support. :smiley:

I am hoping the re-imported DDP montage had filtered the issue.

Fingers crossed.

8

The re-imported DDP has saved the day.

No click on the newly burnt disk. (from the imported DDP)

I am still lost as to what caused it?

I also note the reimported DDP file has actual gaps between the tracks on the montage, are these purely visual and created by the montage ? or does the audio file set created by the DDP generation process actually generate silence/split files.

Anyway I am pleased the issue is resolved for now.

It’s very strange all 10 masters previously burnt in WL7 since my new i7 DAW has been in place have been sweet and no problem and I have been enjoying my WL7 experience very much except surprising issue appearing again.

Why would creating a DDP file filter the click (or cause of the click) I experience, is it changing montage format factors into something more foolpoof for a cd OS/transport ? I do not discount some hyper sensitivity relating to the Sony CD player I test masters on. (as well as Plextools pro)

Thanks.

9

Ok just back tracked and saw “standard” or “audio in pauses” options when importing DDP files.

Default was “standard” which I originally chose, I just imported using “audio in pauses” and will see if the issue has re-appeared. Now the DDP import looks as my original Montage was with audio in pauses as opposed to gaps.

I also add that there is no click in the “audio in pauses” DDP import montage.

10

Ok so the DDP imported using “audio in pauses” option has burnt a click to the disk.

So it appears that this click has something to do with audio in pauses which does not appear
in the montage, but does manifest when burnt to disk and/or is relate to sensitive cd player.

Well i am going to buy a new CD player and go with the “standard” version of the DDP audio import as
it is clickless and the tops and tails of all tracks sound perfect to me. So it seems the “standard” mode has not
had any detrimental effect on how the disk plays to the ear.

Not ideal but a work round. I will keep a disk and play in a new CD player to
see if my existing one is some hypersensivity to how WL writes disks.

CD-R Media can be ruled out as the issue occurs on 2 types of disks.

11

So all the sub code info is fine and the C1’s coming in at 0.3 er second so all seems fine on disk now.

It will be of great interest to see if the click manifests on another CD player.

12

Despite thinking this was resolved in WL7, worth bearing in mind these types of click have been generated on 2 completely different systems, previously resolvable by moving markers a little, I originally thought it was when end and start markers were too close to each other, on my WL5 system it seemed to happen more frequently when a client required shorter than 2 second pauses if I recall correctly. :

Plextor 712A = Wavelab 5 (PATA)

Plextor 716SA = Wavelab 7 (SATA)

Neither systems ever presented any such issue using SADiE.

I normally have “Quantize to nearest cd frame” if someone could explain the consequence
of this (positive or otherwise) that would be of interest.

Will get a new cd player ASAP.

13

Cd player ordered, looking forwards to hear what is on the disk in a Technics
cd player.

Any other input, advice, suggestion very welcome

14

Ok good news, on my new CD player (Technics) this click on start track 12 does not appear.

This is great as it seems ultimately it was the hypersensitivity/fault of my other Sony cd player which
creates a tiny a click. So apologies where they are due towards WL and PG.

This has satisifed me now as I know where the problem lies and it seems my stringent quality control
has been worthwhile. I think I will keep to what has worked for the last 3 years and use the Technics as a back up/double check CD player. Never yet had a single CD-R pre master rejected.

It still does not explain why SADiE has never displayed the issue on the same hardware though but nonetheless
I am confident the technical quality of my CD pre-masters are second to none using either Wavelab or SADiE as the
PQing workstation.

Time to commit another body of works to disk (Christian Grime as it happens)

(I have added that this issue is not specifically related to WL7 on the first line of the first post just for the record)

cheers ; )

cheers