Maybe or maybe not. I believe you’re making the same assumption that a lot of people complaining in this thread do: that Steinberg is somehow doing this on a whim and now that a couple of folks on the forum get their panties in a twist they would change their mind.
Not saying you’re complaining, I just cheekily used your post as a launching pad. Sorry.
This is probably a decision they’ve come to after lengthy considerations. It’s an expensive and risky endeavor and they’re only doing it because they have more reasons to do it than reasons not to.
I’m also pretty sure they’ve done their due diligence on market research before deciding to do it. I don’t know for sure but I’m pretty certain they know for a fact that the absolute majority of their customers are online and don’t mind. And that ditching the dongle helps them reach new customers. Steinberg has been around for decades; they’re not noobs at this.
This leaves the small but vocal majority of technofobes who insist on being offline all the time and the moping children that bought Cubase in 2010 and expect to use it for another ten years without upgrading. I’m guessing Steinberg don’t love alienating these people but are forced to do so. Personally I’d love if these people ragequit to some other DAW and we’ll be spared from having to listen to their entitled whines.
For the ones forced to work offline for NDA reasons they have some kind of solution in the works that I guess most major studios will be okay with. I’m even pretty sure Steinberg reached out to these big customers before and checked. Because that would be what any sensible company would do.
Considering the fantastic patience and courtesy I’ve seen their reps display in this forum the last few days convince me that Steinberg is indeed a pretty sensible company.
I would not doubt Bens statement at all, Internet is going completely wireless. There won’t be cable anymore. Computers will become like cell phones, just like how an iPhone forces you to connect to a network or wireless to set it up.
Windows 10 nearly already forces you to connect to the internet during set up, they are leaning towards that.
If you look on the FaceBook groups and other unofficial forums/communities - a lot of people complain about the dongle - a lot of people claim they would use Cubase if it weren’t for the dongle.
And yet iLok is one of more widespread security keys of all time, can’t think of how many licences I’ve gathered in mind over the years. They give a choice of dongle or or drive which is a sensible compromise.
I’ve had the Waves issue on multiple occasions. It creates an ID seemingly based on system + internet connection. When I had a period of using lot’s of different internet connections on my laptop, it would constantly fail to recognize my system.
It’s an extremely prone system.
Though the truth is every system I’ve been involved with, whether dongle, system or motherboard ID, or some kind of hybrid connection ID system has issues.
True. But Fender is owned by Servo Pacific which has invested mainly in the automotive manufacturing and parts industry. They have zero experience with music companies or the needs and expectations of their customers.
It’s a daw….I can move on….I’m really not precious about it…Studio one updates blow chunks on Cubase updates over the last 36 months….if studio one gets led in the wrong direction there are other options….
The church of the DAW doesn’t exist with me….I’ve not really got it….
Cubase 11.0.41 is final. it is poor engineering from SB. It’s good that they provide a dongle less solution for people that dont want the dongle. But it is a disaster for the ones that have a lot of money in old projects that they need to be able to open “forever”. A good solution would provide a solution that works for both. Now it is a huge degrade for some users.
You have enough time to open old projects and transfer them to a more recent Cubase/Cubase 12. If they’re using old 32bit plugins, I guess you will have to bounce down tracks.
Best you stop using your dongle as soon as 12 is out and seal your dongle in a labeled box and preserve it.
This is the history of computing and software. Compatibility isn’t forever. You either need to buy/store old outdated hardware, or you transfer to new mediums.
For PACE, it’s their specialist field so they have to actively provide flexibility as it’s a system they sell. It’s also been compromised multiple times over the year.
Why don’t Steinberg use them?
Longterm it makes sense when you have so many products that are integral to one another to develop your own security platform. Particularly when you’re responsible for technologies that other third parties develop for.
No doubt this will cost a lot of money to setup, but SB have always had a long-term vision whereby money spent is invested in themselves and their technologies. Which is why we have VST, ASIO etc.
I don’t know what the driving factor is for SB to completely forego a dongle with the new system, whether it’s an image they want to shake off, simplicity with one system, security concern running two methods, over-complicated license terms, or just cost - who knows?
One thing for sure is as it’s explained, there will be no dongle. I’m pretty sure if NI put Kontakt users on a dongle protection there would be absolute hell break lose via the majority of users. At least SB only have to contend with a small minority who are probably more concerned than genuinely will experience issues.
First I want to sincerely thank the Steinberg team for their excellent engagement here in this thread about this extremely important topic! Good to see such responsiveness and also passion about what you are trying to do, and trying to listen to our concerns!
I’ve read 99% of this thread, and my own concerns are the following:
I do not like any licensing system that phones home in any way, shape or form. Too many reasons why, all have been discussed in these threads. Considering you are determined to do this anyway, and you’re part of an industry that has decided to do this, I request that you please:
Detail precisely in an easy-to-find policy statement what you will collect each time the product phones home.
Limit what you will collect and HOW OFTEN you collect it to the absolute minimum for license validation, and then restrict ALL OTHER data you might be tempted to collect (any kind of telemetry, OS, plugins, session info, hardware details, IP/network info, etc., etc.) so it is absolutely OPT IN only (i.e. to optionally “help” Steinberg develop better products)
Provide an easy-to-access LOG of when the last time was the product phoned home and EXACTLY what was included. Obviously some of it will be an encrypted signature of some kind, so you can say something like: “IP address, Username, Encrypted license key token” or whatever
Promise to follow strict privacy standards to the highest ethical and technical standards according to and exceeding German law (which tends to have better protections currently than, say, US privacy standards)
Have periodic internal audits to confirm that you are following your own policies
Anonymize ALL data possible, and have strict reduced, minimalistic data-retention policies in place
Don’t get greedy with collecting more and more data. Stay focused that this is strictly a licensing system, NOT a data mining system.
License limitations – I currently own most of your products (from WaveLab to HALion to Nuendo, etc.) and use them on several computers. Some don’t touch the Internet for a long time. I need maximum flexibility with your phone home system – 2 activations at a time is not enough considering you are now asking us to regularly connect to the Internet. The dongle, as hated as it is by some, at least gave us huge flexibility to jump on another computer that’s been offline for a while. Your 1-year offline option is helpful, but not enough. So I request that you:
Please increase the number of activations to at least 3 activations per license
Please extend the phone home window to 45-60 days to make it easier for us.
Please make the 1-year offline option as flexible as possible – please figure out a way to save a key to a USB drive that can move from machine to machine if possible. I realize there are technical concerns, but please see item 4 below about trusting your customers…
Most importantly, please allow a “soft fail” mode with a generous little respectful window so that we can at least use the license for, say, 1 more day more before you lock us out. For example, if we haven’t booted a laptop for 45 days or even 70 days (and we didn’t use the 1-year offline option on this particular laptop), then load it up on location and can’t connect to the Internet, please allow it to soft fail and give us a kindly-worded warning, and then a little 24 hour grace countdown period before you deactivate the license OR we have to find an Internet connection. This will prevent a lot of hassle when we need to grab and go with a laptop that hasn’t booted up for a while, and we’ll at least know we can get 24 more hours out of it before you lock us out.
If you require us to have an online license system, which creates a new set of security risks that we didn’t have to deal with before compared to your old license system, please do us the courtesy of providing best-in-class security protocols for protecting our accounts, which would include a 2FA account protection with something like a Yubikey, U2F, or TOTP-based app options (like Authy, Google Authenticator, etc.) That’s the least you can do to help protect accounts that we know house valuable license assets!
I ask that you please err on the side of trusting your customers! This is the tough balance I know you are trying to find, but I think you can do well to gain the support (and understanding) of your customers if you trust them first, and resist any urges for any harder policies. Copy protection in general penalizes your most valuable asset – your honest customers – and I don’t think it’s enough that your licensing system is “better” than the old system. It needs to be MUCH better. I think you also have a chance to establish a better, more trusting standard in this industry, where I know many of us reward more trust with more business.
Thanks again for listening in this thread. Please make sure it works, gets out of our way, respects our privacy, respects us as users, and is generous with flexibility – you can achieve this while also protecting your own interests.
I haven’t been able to find this answer anywhere so perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction. What will happen to instrument licenses currently on usb eLicensers? Will be transferred into the new system or will they also need to be upgraded to transfer over? I’d rather not have to buy my halion/ groove agent expansions/instruments just to keep access to them if we’re switching the dongle.
While I have no problems with the upcoming licensing system, I do have concerns with the cessation of eLicenser. I currently run 3 versions of Cubase on my DAW system - Cubase SX3 to convert old .ALL files, Cubase 8.5 for rendering older tracks made with 32 bit plugins, and Cubase 11 Pro.
I am not sure if the new licensing system caters for having 3 versions of Cubase on the one computer. If it doesn’t, then I’ll still be needing the eLicenser even if I update to Cubase 12.
In addition, there is no way of making a backup dongle in case of an emergency - like the plastic dongle breaking.
The ownership as gone from the inventor in Germany to a conglomerate in Japan. What the next stop will be is probably beyond your pay grade. Since the Yamaha take over there have financial improvement not been good. Google trend for the products is a disaster. So don’t be sure that you dont have to go somewhere sometime in the future.
