Condense and Instrument Change problems

Dorico
#1

Hi,

Sorry if there’s another thread to this topic. But with the keywords instrument change and condense I found nothing.

I’ve a few problems with condense and players holding several instruments. To illustrate my problems I cut off all unnecessary instruments and here is the DL-link.

https://dpdot.de/verlagoc/owncloud/index.php/s/i6Yk4VhXjo5voOP

1.) Clarinett-Section. Clarinett 1 & 2 holding B (as default) and A Clarinetts as a second instrument. As soon as they change to A Clarinetts, condensing stops working. Until the change, Cl. 1 & 2 are always condensed, after the change they don’t.

2.) Oboe Section. Oboe 3 changes to English Horn. But ~20 Bars break in between. For engraving - reasons I’ve to make a frame break right after the last bar of the “native” oboe3. There’s a key-change in the end of the system but no “To English Horn” label. Quite confusing. Further I can’t connect the “to english horn” label somewhere before. So it just doesn’t appear anymore. (see on page two in the dorico-score.
And last but not least: why there is a key-change? Well ok - because of the change of the instrument. But funny thing is: before the player starts to play on the E.H. there is another key-change. And in which key the empty, unshown bars don’t appear in the score isn’t an important information, I think. So is there a way to hide this key-change?

3.) With all instruments in the score i get a very funny result when I connect the concerned instrument-change bar with the frame before (shown on the picture)

Instrument Change Problem1.jpg
Instrument Change Problem1.jpg525×746 77.5 KB

Do I have to live it at the moment or am I doing something completly wrong?

#2

The problem you are experiencing with the vertical disparity at the point of the instrument transition is caused by a problem where a vertical staff spacing adjustment is somehow being applied to one instrument and not the other. In Engrave mode, enable the staff spacing tool, then select the handle corresponding to that staff and hit Delete.

Regarding condensing for players holding multiple instruments, at the moment only the first instrument held by a player can participate in condensing. There’s nothing you can do about this at present.

#3

Well than 2 good ideas knocking out each other. Player holding several instruments vs. condensing. Fight. Pity. Until now, to be honest, condensing is not more than a good idea. At least from the view of a complex score. I hope for the future. As so often with Dorico.

#4

Plenty of people are using condensing successfully in the present, myself included. I recognize there are shortcomings, but it’s still a huge benefit to me already. And my understanding it that condensing is a massive undertaking, from a computational and programming perspective.

Do you prefer they had kept it out for another year until it was perfected? I don’t. Dorico is breaking new ground in engraving, and with it comes a process of growth. And we get to be a part of that process.

Sure, Dorico has a bright future. Go ahead and anticipate what’s ahead. If instead you prefer software that won’t change much in the next ten years, there’s always Finale! :laughing:

#5

…or Sibelius.
No thank you. I would never ever change back to roots. But just for one reason: the fantastic layout options and wonderful spacing. And the “looks like printed” look. But if they sell condensing as the new killer-feature and I hit the limits repeated on page 2 of my new project than allow that I don’t kneel down respectfully. I surely see the benefits of the condensing feature. But, as I wrote, from the point of view of a complex score, it’s just a good idea right now. But okay. Never criticize the holy cow :wink:

Pls, don’t misunderstood me: I love Dorico, but not unconditionally :smiley:

#6

Understanding that this is a process is not “kneeling down.” It’s called “development” for a reason.
At the same time, no one here objects to users asking questions respectfully. :slight_smile:

#7

Hi.
I just wanted to make sure that the condensing feature was still not ready to condense second (or third…) instruments, only the first ones held by the players. Can anyone confirm?
I think 3.1 has come up with great features, and especially Condensing changes, and I admit a solution to this problem with second instruments would have been great, but is probably a lot of work… Unless I missed it, I guess I’ll wait for it :wink:

#8

I can confirm: for the moment, only the first held instrument by a player will condense. I ran into this with a pair of clarinets both switching between Bb and A. There may be workarounds (involving separate players) if they don’t switch in the middle of a flow.

#9

Separate players work OK within a flow, so long as they don’t both appear on the same system. In real life, changing clarinets takes long enough so that isn’t likely to be an issue.

If one player changes but the other does not, you wouldn’t want to condense an A and a Bb clarinet onto one stave in any case.

#10

I can confirm: for the moment, only the first held instrument by a player will condense. I ran into this with a pair of clarinets both switching between Bb and A.

Just checking, since I don’t see this info in the 3.5 version history: condensing still only works for the first instrument held by a player. Is that correct?

#11

yep

#12

Thanks!

#13

This baffled me for the entire afternoon! I was wondering why despite condense change commands, my 2 clarinet parts were not condensing! This is the cause… moved the clarinet A to the second instrument et voila.

#14

I can confirm in Dorico 3.5. Does anyone know if there’s a workaround for this problem?

#15

No, there’s no practical workaround at the moment. If the doublings only change at movement/flow breaks then you could have multiple players, each holding one instrument, and then assign both players to the same part layout.

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