Please refer to the screen shot below. I can send a Dorico score if that would help. I hade 3 Trumpet parts in the original score, all on separate staves. I then Condensed several parts such as Clarinet 2 and 3 and Trumpet 2 and 3. Notice that when Clarinet 2 and three share a common rhythm the stems are combined into one direction as they should be. The same is true of the Trumpets in ms. 34 and 35. But notice the 2nd abd 3rd Trumpet part at ms. 27 through 30. Why are the stems split in opposite directions when they share a common rhythm. The same is true in the condensed Alto Sax parts. I am having some trouble understanding the concept in condensing.
Thanks for any help.
It will most likely be due to material that comes before bar 27.
Dorico calculates condensing based on phrases, or better put, music in between rests. And so, if there’s music at the beginning of that phrase that needs to be split into two voices, the condensing will remain the same until the end of that phrase.
You’ll get a quick answer once you’ve uploaded your project.
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If you can see the problem yourself the you can add a Manual Condensing Change at an appropriate position. This will tell Dorico to recalculate the remainder of the phrase from that point.
Daniel,
I had mostly good success with the method you proposed for getting some troublesome areas to condense. I still have one issue I am not sure how to resolve. See the Dorico sample I am attaching. in Write Mode you can see the see that the first Alto Saxes drop out at m. 77 while the 2nd Altos continue to play. At m. 93 you can see the 2nd Altos drop out and the 1st Altos take over until m. 101 when all saxes are tutti. When you switch to Engrave Mode and see the condensed music, you can see from the sample that at m. 77 you only see the 2nd Alto part and at m. 93 you see the 1st Alto part but there should be rests either above the notes or below depending on with group is not playing. As is, it appears that all Alto Saxes should be playing the whole section from m. 77 to m. 101. When I condensed the Alto Saxes into one staff the score now does not reflect that one group or the other is not playing. Can you think of a way I can fix this?
Thank you.
Gary
Condensing Issue .dorico (755.7 KB)
Thanks for uploading your project.
I notice you have several Manual Condensing Changes. Two of them are causing this issue. The issue is that you have told Dorico to condense the two instruments into one voice, rather than one staff with an Up-stem and Down-stem Voice.
The first one is at bar 27, and the second is at bar 77. Remove these and you should now see the rests.
I’ve attached your project with these changes.
I would encourage you to set up a Custom Condensing Group (like your Cl/Tpt/Tbn) if you would always like the saxes in one staff - rather than use condensing changes.
Condensing Issue v2.dorico (1.1 MB)
Also:
You have a million Page Overrides! And they all appear to be adjusting the same thing.
You can set Dorico to automatically arrange your Frames - and tokens within frames - by editing the Page Template in the Edit Page Template dialog:
Attached is another version of your project with Page Template changes and no overrides.
Condensing Issue v3.dorico (1.1 MB)
Daniel,
Than ks for the lightning fast reply. Part of my problem here is that I know just enough about Dorico at this point to create a big mess, which it appears I have done. I will look at all this tomorrow or Monday and try to make sense of it all. The video you sent on Condensing was very good but did not really get into the nuts and bolts of the window where I think I must have clicked Mannual Condensing Changes… The whole condensing thing is quite complicated but essential to the scoring I do for my publishers. I will play around with it and watch the video again and take another look at condensing on Dorico Help. Maybe I can figure this out.
Thanks again.
Gary
I would love to know how to do this! What you sent is exactly what I want but know the steps to get there.
Thanks again.
Daniel,
I think I was now able to duplicate your work on the Alto Sax Condensing issue. I reaaly need to revisit the whole condensing concept online and get my head straight on it.
You mentioned in one response that I had many Page Overrides that appeared to be adjusting the same thing. Can you tell on your end what that was? It has been a few days but I seem to remember that I had more that 100% of my pages filled and I went in and changed the staff size on the entire score to get those numbers under 100%. Would this have been what I changed that caused all these overrides? How did you get Dorico to automatically arrange the frames. I am not sure where to find the Edit Page Template dialog. I was able to get to the page that looks like your image you sent above but don’t know what to do with it. Is that image the Edit Page Template dialog and, if so, how do I tell it to get rid of the overrides?
Thank you so much for all your expert help.
Daniel,
Never mind on my question about eliminating the overrides. I actually finally figured that out.
One other thing I have noticed about my score: In Engrave Mode, on the right side off each page there is either a light red strip down the side or a light green strip. I assume that the red strip indicates I am over the 100% threshold on the staves and the green strip means my staves are under the 100% threshold. Should I do something about that or is that O.K. to leave?
Thanks again.
Yes, those are the System Fullness Indicators (the Frame Fullness Indicator is at the bottom-left of the page).
As to what you do next: it’s up to you?
Red (overfull) can be frequent when you use Casting Off and Dorico is squeezing everything in to suit your settings. In this case, adjusting the Note Spacing or the Staff Size should get you out of trouble.
On the other hand, if you don’t need, say, 4 bars per system, disable Casting Off or even just enter in System Breaks here and there.
A great video on the topic:
PS Page Overrides are created when you have adjusted Frames on your page, rather than the music inside them.
Page Template Editor, to make the same change to all your pages without overriding each page:
Daniel,
A quick follow-up on our discussion about setting up Custom Condensing Groups from a day or two ago: I take it this is not something I would want to set up for a blank score template since once a score is condensed it restricts the work that can be done in Write Mode which seems it would make inputing the notes in a new score more difficult. It sounds like setting up the Custom Condensing Groups is better left until the note inputting has mostly been completed. Does that sound right?
Thak very much for all you help on this first band score in Dorico.
You can do it whenever you like. Just make sure Condensing is switched off while your entering music. Or, make sure you’re entering music in Galley view - which doesn’t use Condensing.