Condensing Cello and Double bass request

Would this option be possibly added in a further version?
That’s something quite usual in classic orchestral music. Thanks!

I thought you could create combinations?

Section instruments are not supposed to condense…

You should be able to do this automatically. The only thing is that you need to have set up your players as solo players, not section players.

One hopes the intersection between the kinds of repertoire where this is a necessity and the ones where you’ll need divisi is rather slim, but Marc’s request should stand. Besides, he’s Marc, I’m sure he knew the workaround!

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Yes… Or as choral singers (with dynamic above staff…)
I think an option here would be legit :wink:

If doesn’t work with solo cello and bass players, because the bass transposes by an octave and the cello doesn’t. This is similar to the problem trying to condense tenor and bass singers.

Of course if you want to keep piling up workrounds by pretending the bass is another cello, writing the notes at the wrong pitch, and then tweaking the playback, that’s up to you :slight_smile:

But not non-existent. From memory, Haydn’s three symphonies “Le Matin, Le Midi, Le Soir” have solo and concertante parts for both cello and bass, sometimes doubled and sometimes independent.

I didn’t say non-existent, of course — I meant that it falls to the edges of the bell curve Daniel likes to talk about, hence why it’s not on the original implementation and also why Marc’s request should stand and why the workaround, while useful, isn’t enough. You know me, I’m often found on the bell curve blues as well.

Playing devil’s advocate here, I’m unsure as to really whether this is a genuine case for condensing, if we’re talking about “celli e bassi coll’ottava” (excuse the pig Italian), since you could simply have a single part that you give to both the cello players and the bass players, label the start of the staff in the score layout, and be done with it.

I was thinking this applied more to passages like this in a typical score (a Haydn symphony) where even if there was only one “cello and bass” part engraved, in the part the music was split onto two staves.

The effort to produce two independent cello and bass parts is minimal with computer software, unlike the manual labour of engraving two parts that were maybe 95% identical.

I really think it is a case for condensing; it’s very common throughout the 18th and 19th centuries to have celli and bassi on one part but sometimes with the bassi resting. It’s just like flute 1 and 2 and you ought to be able to condense them onto one staff. Not at the edges of the bell curve at all, not even really a semantic problem.

And now I notice it, I seem to be able to condense French horns in F 1 and 2 just fine, but Cornets in B-flat 1 and 2 are not condensed, either in the part or in the full score. That instance seems completely inexplicable to me.

Also, by the way, when I make a cello/bass part (disregarding the condensing issue) multirests seem to be turned off, even when the length of the rests is the same in both parts.

if you need help with an inexplicable case of condensing, you know what to do.

I am trying to understand the issue and request. What are you really looking for?

When transcribing or arranging music through the mid 19th C, I normally combine the bass and celli onto one staff from the outset — even the Hayden example. As a player, I certainly never had problems playing either instrument with both on the same staff.

Ok, for years in Finale, I couldn’t assign the two instruments correctly but I could hear the results in my mind even if I couldn’t on playback in my computer.

Dear PF Slow,
Is your question for me (since I’m the original poster)?
My question was to know whether I could condense section players that are usually condensed in a whole range of the litterature (Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven…) in the near future. Now I know it’s planned, so I’m happy :blush:

OK, I’ve figured out a way to make this work.

  1. Make a new cello part and a new second cello part. It seems they must be solo instruments, not sections. Rename the new second cello part “bass” (but don’t make an instrument change!)
  2. Paste the original cello part into the new cello part and paste the bass part into the new second cello part (“bass”). Transpose it up an octave.
    Once you’ve done that, you can condense these new parts into one part in the usual way. It won’t sound right, but if you dicker around with your layouts, you can have your cake and eat it too.
    And incidentally (see my earlier post at the end of January) the multirests show up as expected.

The condensed lines do show “Vc” and “Cb” (my designated abbreviations) as appropriate. The one thing I haven’t found out how to do is how to change “a 2” to “Unison.” Is that possible?

Yes, you can override the text of the player labels via the Properties panel in Engrave mode.

Thanks. Can you do it once for a whole flow, or must it be done on each page? I haven’t yet found a global setting.

Unfortunately, using the properties panel is the most granular workflow offered by Dorico. A global setting would probably involve Engraving options…

Without meaning to bump this thread - I can foresee an instance where I’d want the celli and bass parts condensed in the score, but separate in the parts. Is this still not doable? (i.e. to condense basses and celli onto a single line with the basses at the right octave…)