Condensing issues: show accidentals / hide rests

This example shows two condensing issues that I have not found in this forum:

  1. The manually added (cautionary) natural accidentals are not shown when condensed.
  2. The manually hidden rests are not hidden when condensed
    Any ideas? Any workaround?
  1. Accidentals can be set differently on condensed vs uncondensed staves. You can either propagate properties (I think) or re-set the accidental visibility on the condensed staff; you can select notes on condensed staves in Engrave mode.

  2. Condensed staves also handle rests differently. Using the graphical “remove rests” command probably isn’t the best tool for handling this sort of situation anyway, as it’s not intended to change the amount of time implied (it’s more for controlling extra rests in multiple-voice contexts). You could, rather than changing the duration of this bar, use hidden tuplets for the cello, so that that phrase fits inside a standard 2/4 bar?

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  1. Thank you, Lillie. That worked out. It was new to me that the visibility of accidentals in condensed staves are treated differently. I was used to accidentals being treated the same in write mode and engrave mode (if uncondensed).
    However, the propagate properties command obviously has no effect on condensed staves. (?)

  2. I normally use the hidden tuplets trick for cadenzas. But this has also drawbacks:

  • You must slow down the tempo according to the ratio of the tuplet.
  • You must shorten the acoustic duration of the notes of the other instruments within the tuplet.
  • You cannot move graphically the rests if the tuplet is uneven (for example 17:12) because in horizontal spacing the grid refers to the notes of the cadenza. Unfortunately, the latter is sometimes necessary.
    So please show me in detail how to use the graphical “remove rest” command in condensed staves (I cannot select the rests) although it might cause more work than using the tuplet trick.
    Thanks a lot!

Correction (sorry)
2. You must shorten the acoustic duration of the notes of the other instruments outside the tuplet, in the example Fl. and Ob.

I thought I might be able to condense the flute rests if they were explicit and contained in tuplets, but apparently not.
condensedRests.dorico (481.4 KB)

Thank you. Derrek.
If I squeeze the the 5/4 into 2/4 using a tuplet 20:8 for the notes I get everything right, but I cannot select the rests in condensed mode for graphical moving.
If put a tuplet with ratio 1:4 over the second quarter of the 5/4, it deletes the following rests, but in condensed mode all rests show up again.
Maybe I do not understand what you mean.

I mean exactly what you just said. Even if one reduces the number or rests via a tuplet in the separate parts, the rests reappear when the parts are condensed.

I’d like to think that could be fixed down the road.

Change the quarter rests to notes, and the rests disappear in the condensed layout.

If I change the quarter rest to notes under the tuplet, the notes will appear in the condensed layout. Or what do you mean?

Since version 3.5.10 there is an option to propagate the accidental visibility overrides to condensed staves.
“Notation options>Condensing>Accidentals>Accidental visibility overrides”
selecting “propagate to condensed staves” may be a time saver in this case.

Following what Derrek wrote:
Then you could hide notehead and stem in the condensed layout using Engrave mode. In write mode you could also supressed playback.
I guess/hope it is just a matter of time until another version of Dorico provides a better way to solve this kind of situations, but in the meantime it looks like a workaround is the way to go. I also suggest to create a comment whenever a workaround is used. If one self, or (even more relevant) someone else later wants/needs to edit the score one can take a look at the comment and knows exactly how that was made.

Here a gif usiyng the file uploaded by Derrek


Of course in the parts you would need to hide the extra notes and apply a couple of note spacing changes to make them look ok.

Nice thinking.

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Thanks a lot for your efforts, rafaelv!
Up to now it seems to me that squeezing the 5/4 cadenza into 2/4 is less work than remove the rests by tuplets, especially when there is a big orchestra.
Let us hope for an update for this issue.