Condensing SATB with lyrics

[lukesneeringer]

Hello.
I’m trying to make use of the new condensing feature in Dorico 6. My use case is engraving hymns for singing in church.

In Dorico 5, I would engrave using four separate instruments for SATB, and then I would copy over to a fifth instrument (which I called “hymnal”) and use the paste reduce feature to paste the notes, and manually adjust notes into the up-stem or down-stem voice to make them look right. This means that (1) my music and lyrics are duplicated twice in the project, important if I spot an error later, since I have to fix it twice, and (2) I spend a decent amount of time manually getting the voices to match correctly.

I’m excited about the condensing feature in Dorico 6, which the video suggests will alleviate this workflow. However, I can’t get condensing to work right.

I currently have two problems:

1. Lyrics don’t condense between the SA and TB staves but rather are forced above the staff.
2. I can’t get the beams to go in the same direction when the notes don’t overlap (note: the video seems to show the precise behavior I want here).

Is it possible to use the new condensing feature in this way? My test project is attached.

Psalm 95 - O Come and to Jehovah Sing.dorico (1.6 MB)

Note: This project is based off of a Dorico 5 template. However, I tried making a from-scratch project, and the behavior was the same.

[k_b]

Hello Luke,
firstly Dorico’s condensing feature is not new, it exists since Dorico version 3 - back in 2017…
As far as I know, condensing lyrics is not part of the process yet. This means one is better off doing this by hand. One way would be your procedure. I suggest additionally: If you paste your music from the four staves into the “Choir instrument” use the Paste Special->Reduce function. Dorico will then automatically set the stems into the right position.
Also before copying, Filter for “Notes and Rests” thus omitting the Lyrics for one of the two parts you want to combine. Then afterwards manually correct lyrics, if necessary.

@lukesneeringer

I can’t get the beams to go in the same direction when the notes don’t overlap

I don’t understand what you try to achieve here.

[lukesneeringer]

Hello!
I’m familiar with the historical feature and its limitations, but improved condensing is one of the features announced for Dorico 6: New in Dorico 6 | Steinberg

[Janus]

@lukesneeringer

but improved condensing is one of the features announced for Dorico 6

If you read the version history you will see the condensing improvements relate to the new ability to condense players holding multiple instruments, not lyrics.

[charles_piano]

@lukesneeringer

Lyrics don’t condense between the SA and TB staves but rather are forced above the staff.

I don’t have much experience with choral music in Dorico, but I think that condensing isn’t perfectly suited to this type of music. That said, in your example, if you enter the lyrics in the Alto staff instead of the Soprano, the lyrics will appear between the two staves in the condensed score.

Psalm 95 - O Come and to Jehovah Sing.dorico (1,7 Mo)

@k_b

@lukesneeringer

I can’t get the beams to go in the same direction when the notes don’t overlap

I don’t understand what you try to achieve here.

I’m not sure to understand what you mean either.

[MarcLarcher]

@charles_piano

I’m not sure to understand what you mean either.

My understanding is that Luke would want the condensed stuff on one voice. This is possible using Condensing Changes (thus breaking the “condensing phrase”). @lukesneeringer if you don’t know what a “condensing phrase” is (or how Dorico chooses to condense music between rests) I suggest you watch some videos about it on the Dorico channel
In any case, if you need that, you should insert a Condensing Change before and after those notes (unless there’s a rest) with both singers ticked, that’s all. And they both should have the same stuff to condense to get into a single voice. Or use the manual condensing option there (which might be a good idea, with the lyrics and all…)

[charles_piano]

@MarcLarcher

My understanding is that Luke would want the condensed stuff on one voice. This is possible using Condensing Changes (thus breaking the “condensing phrase”).

Meanwhile, it’s what I had just figured out and tried (cf. Tenor/Bass)

[benwiggy]

@lukesneeringer

I would engrave using four separate instruments for SATB, and then I would copy over to a fifth instrument (which I called “hymnal”) and use the paste reduce feature to paste the notes, and manually adjust notes into the up-stem or down-stem voice to make them look right.

Do you actually produce finished Layouts in both styles? Or do you just compose in SATB and then create a final result in a reduced piano score ?

If the latter, then you don’t really need the SATB once you’ve made the reduction, do you?

I’d agree that Condensing for voices doesn’t work well yet, and it’s still easier to work with separate staves.

[dan_kreider]

Yeah, I don’t recommend this unless you really want four separate instruments for some reason. I do hymnals often in Dorico and just set the hymns up in one layout.

[japj]

The four separate instruments are typically also very useful if you want to create rehearsal tracks.

(As a choir singer I have spent a fair amount of time cleaning up/splitting condensed SA/TB scores into separate tracks to create rehearsal tracks for my choirs)

[lukesneeringer]

@MarcLarcher

My understanding is that Luke would want the condensed stuff on one voice. This is possible using Condensing Changes

Thank you, I will attempt this.

@dan_kreider

Yeah, I don’t recommend this unless you really want four separate instruments for some reason.

I do need the four separate instruments. I use them to export MIDI files that I upload to Sing Your Part for my congregation.

[dan_kreider]

In that case, I’d say it depends on which is the first priority. If print is important, I would do it the “normal” way to get it print-ready, and then split them out for audio afterwards.