In this Part layout, the key signature for the green section isn’t generating below. How can I fix this?
Well, it looks like the instrument change is responsible for this new key signature… Could you please post a capture of galley view and signposts on ?
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Not an answer but it’s highly recommended to notate horn parts which contain multiple key changes – but played on the same instrument in F/B♭ – without any key signatures.
For the players it’s hard enough to transpose the music.
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I can reproduce the issue. Strange indeed:
I’m not sure yet about a solution (except changing the place of the system break, or the Instrument Transition Position in Layout Options)…
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This workaround seems to work: Enter a Gb Major local (independent) Key Signature for the Bb Horn in this bar (in order to show Ab Major in the transposing part layout, and come back to F major in the next bar):
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It should be G Major, not Gb Major.
I was speaking about Concert Pitch, not transposing pitch.
Well, I would need more details… I could only try to guess what your issue is — and indeed, something unusual seems to be happening with the cautionary key signature at the end of the system in this specific case.
In concert pitch you’re in C major at the beginning. You have a Key Signature change from C to F at some point.
For the Horn in Bb, it means D>G
For the Horn in A, it means Eb>Ab
It seems that you also have an instrument change at the same place.
So, what would you like to do exactly? If the Key Signature is F, the Horn in A has to be in Ab, not in G.
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Are you suggesting horn players don’t know how to read key signatures? This is an old style of writing that has, unfortunately, continued in much orchestral literature. Every other transposing instrument is capable of reading key signatures just fine, and my wife, a horn player herself, has never read any music but those with key signatures (outside of a few pieces I’ve written with no key signature for any instrument).
Here in the US, it’s uncommon now to see horn parts without keys unless none of the ensemble has them. That’s a whole other discussion…
The OP’s screenshot shows that he’s writing for horn in Bb and horn in A. I think @Vadian’s point is that when you’re writing for horns pitched in different keys, and expecting the part to be played on a modern double F/Bb horn, you’re better off writing the part without key signatures. so that the player doesn’t need to worry about transposing into F and considering the key signature.
I would agree with that.
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Perhaps, but most horn players I know think in the key the instrument is in. For instance, I, as a clarinet player, often play off parts written for flute or saxophone, and the transposition process is trivial in most cases. I would think most horn players are up to the task. Adding the key signature for the instrument it was written can only help, IMHO. Especially in pieces that have a defined tonal center.
And if this is the case, why are we bothering with the instrument changes at all? Just write for the dang instrument that will play it (double horn) and be done with it.
Sometimes we make things difficult for ourselves because tradition demands it. But there is usually an easier way.
My last big work for wind ensemble was a transcription of Respighi’s Church Windows, and he had trumpet parts in Bb and D, Clarinet in Bb and A, and Horn in F and E. I just put them all in their most common respective keys for band, as 95% of bands would use only those instruments and be forced to transpose. I just did the work for them.
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Exactly, especially when the music deviates from the current “center of gravity”.
This is common usage here in Central Europe.
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Probably, but it’s not usual. Parts for horns pitched in other keys comes from the days when horns had no valves, just crooks. The parts had no key signatures because the only notes written would have been ones in the harmonic series (written in C), plus the occasional stopped note. Later composers who wrote for non-F horns even when the chromatic horn was common (e.g., Brahms) continued the practice of writing without key signatures and using accidentals as needed.
Well, the OP might be engraving some 19th century work and trying to reproduce the original horn parts. I agree that there’s no reason for a current-day composer to write a piece for a non-F horn.
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This is the only good reason for doing so. Though I think it still makes things unnecessarily difficult for the player unless you know they have the correct instrument and crooks.
Pretty much nobody carries anything but an F/Bb double these days, except for performance practice specialists. But I can tell you as a horn player that when I’m playing Mozart/Beethoven/Schumann/etc., I prefer to read the parts in the original keys, because it gives me an immediate sense of what I’m doing harmonically. Most of the horn players I know feel the same way.
Edit: The only exception that comes to mind is the third movement of Brahms 1, which is written for horn in H. No one likes transposing by a tritone!
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