Constrain Delay Compensation turns off External Effects Plugin???? Why?

I’m trying to work out in my head why this would be if the External FX plugin is set to 0delay, and Cubase is already auto-compensating for DA/AD delay just fine?

It’s just a send and a return? why would it disable?

What is your constrain threshold - i think it’s 0ms by default, You need to raise it to suit your requirements otherwise all plugins will be disabled. Also, it’s my understanding that Constrain’s focus is for the recording of VST Instruments, and not external audio per se.

Just remember that no matter what delay setting you enter for external fx, its only an offset on top of the PDC applied. If you’re testing things out then use multi/compressor with a fixed (ms) lookahead value as you can understand PDC much easier by artificially creating latency in your session and recording at differing thresholds. i.e. place 100ms latency before external FX and it should leave the DAW 100ms earlier to be returned on time. Even at 0 Delay that 100ms must have the driver reported latency added to it also, surely? - It’s something i’ve not needed to test, so i’m curious if the driver latency is in there now. :slight_smile:

I think you’re about to fall deeper down the rabbits hole, mate lol.

I’m talking specifically about - the - ‘External Effects’ plugin, the one that is created when you create a ‘External Effect’ in VST Connections with AD/DA ins/outs for external analog mixing equipment.

My threshold setting is at 0, but It shouldn’t matter in this instance should it? It’s no different than using a send on a track to go directly out an output, and then back in on another track - so why would it disable the External Effects plugin?

Yes, i was replying about the External FX Plugin, I have 3 setup for my racks.

However, regardless of being specific to the External FX plugin the problem is that you’re still applying a constrain of 0ms - which will disable all plugins other than instruments. Raise it above the latency incurred by the External FX plugin for it not to disable.

I already said that the delay value in the External FX setup is an offset, i.e. on top of the PDC and Driver latency that’s recorded. If you had a DA-AD round trip of 12ms (i.e. 6ms In/6ms Out) then Cubase will apply that by default to your External FX Plugin, because it HAS to to be in sync. Or else people would be complaining that it’s NOT working correctly - as always, it’s doing it’s job.

Think of it this way if it helps - If you were applying 100% wet processing with your external FX and the ASIO Driver latency wasn’t applied to the send and receive signal then it would put that track out of sync - it needs to send that audio to your FX units before the audio playback from Cubase, and allow for the return time too. As it needs that audio earlier, that’s why the plugin is latent in your project.

Yes, it should

Yes, it is different

Because obviously the plugin delay of the external FX is higher, than the set threshold.

but the delay of the external plugin is also set at zero

Don´t forget the soundcard buffers out and back in.

but is this any different than

Audio Track
Send 1 -> VSTConnections/Output 4

Studio patchbay Output 4 to Input 4

Audio Track B
Input 4
Record

Turning on Delay Compensation doesn’t disable the above tracks, and everything remains sample accurate either way.

Could you “take me on board” by explaining why this is important?
Does the way cubase behaves anyhow make something impossible that is urgently needed?
Or is it only an academic discussion?

Thx, Ernst

Both,

But dialing your set up is important brah, Ive got journals and journals ontop of journals taking notes on this stuff.

Hm, so what does this behavour of cubase make impossible?
(I am asking because I dont want to stumble in one of the maybe hidden traps…)

Thx, Ernst

PS.: Just that it is discussed alone does not make it important - in times of social media a lot is discussed that does not matter. Like the panty-color of the members of the Royal Family ;o)

First of all you are not turning on “Delay compensation”, but “Constrain delay compensatio” which is roughly the opposite.
Second, “constrain delay compensation” does not turn off tracks, but certain plugins under certain circumstances.
And it is not different in where the audio is placed in the recording, it is different in what you monitor.

Sorry I forgot the Constrain, but my question remains unchanged.


Turning on Constrain Delay Compensation, engages the Delay Compensation Threshold (For recording) in preferences/VST does it not? ie, if you want certain plugins to stay active when you turn on Constrain Delay Compensation, you figure out their latency and add that amount to the threshold.


But does any of this matter if your AD/DA ASIO drivers and Cubase are working together to auto-compensate the playback-record sync on the tracks themselves? Or is the purpose only for if you are using the DAW to monitor both playback and input?

No, you’re looking at this too technically, you set the Delay Compensation threshold to the max value that you are comfortable of playing live with - the lower the threshold, the more plugins Cubase HAS to disable to get the live monitoring time down. It’s just a very quick way of disabling latent plugins for live performance, that’s all.

Remember that your session will have a max latency value based on the highest latent chain. From that point, The audio from tracks without latent plugins will be sent ‘After’ those with more latency, because Cubase knows that by the time the latent tracks have processed through the inserts they will all match up coming out the mixer - providing the plugins are reporting to Cubase correctly, of course.

The external FX will be allowing for the ASIO Driver In/Out time as it knows the audio is subject to going through both conversions. But you’re then pressing a button to shut down any plugin that’s equal or greater than 0ms latency - so it gets disabled of course. You’re not querying this still are you? As that should be the easy part. :slight_smile:

If you’re using a manual send then the audio won’t be sent ahead, and you will be completely bypassing any PDC benefits through your FX units. Which may not even be crucial if you’re processing 10-20% send Reverbs… But if you’re running through 100% wet compressors then it will put you out of sync. As you have no DPC lookahead, and no allowance for driver latency.

I’m pretty certain this is not the case with my tests (maybe you can quickly confirm somehow)

because
A.) Cubase is always sending audio sync’d at the longest present latency for all tracks
and
B.) Cubase is always compensating for input latency

This may depend on specific ASIO drivers per hardware AD/DA though I’m not sure.

You can find out easy enough by using a plugin like voxengo’s latency delay- it will create latency for you by a value you set.
https://www.voxengo.com/product/latencydelay/

Set it to 200ms of delay, try it on an External FX insert, and compare the results of placing it on a send’s insert chain - and you can see the difference. You need to magnify the latency to really get a clear understanding.

It’s 32bit only?