Controller Protocols

Nuendo
#1

There’s HUI and MCU. Smart AV had OAISIS and Euphonix developed EUCON, which is arguably the best protocol ever developed for controllers. What did WK’s “id” base their platform on? Also, what is Nuage’ s protocol?

I’m just wondering WHY is the MIDI protocol SO limited? EUCON is sooo much deeper in scope than HUI or MCU. But OAISIS is clearly in the same level as EUCON. Why hasn’t MCU been able to keep pace with the superior protocols and/or why is it so difficult to start a new one, using MIDI as a starting point and building up from there?

I was looking at the QCon Pro X the past couple of days and was immediately put off by all the features I’d lose switching to MCU compared to EUCON. So, once again, the path to a small mid-priced controller is blocked.

Anyone out there, with Coding experience, that could shed some light on this?

#2

WK ID and Nuage use the Steinberg remote SDK . Houston,CMC series, CC121 also.
The deepest controller protocol for Nuendo.

Eucon, HUI and Mackie protocols are third party protocols.
I don’t known if it’s included on the VST3 SDK or a separate one.

They have a developper forum :

#3

I’m using a Yamaha Dm2000 v2 as controller. Great control of Nuendo.
Do you know wich protocol is using?

#4

Steinberg remote SDK is used for all supported Yamaha consoles I reckon.

#5

That’s interesting, what can the DM2000 actually control in Cubendo? Does the studio manager run in latest os / windows 10 etc. I was I see the impression that Yamaha had dropped the studio manager support which made a lot of their digital desks obsolete as raw controllers?

#6

MIDI is form 1981. It is the same year that IBM announced the PC. Today it is history, not technology. But there is not muchyou can do with eucon that is impossible to with MIDI as in controller functionality. It is connected to network so it can be shared among computers. But that’s it. Yes, it is a lot better to do it as Eucon does it. It has an abstraction layer that MCU does not have. You need a lot more bandwidth with that. But that is only a problem if you use real midi, today most is over USB, and you have about same througput on USB as with ethernet. And remote SDK is very different from VSTSDK. (VST is opensource, Remote SDK require NDA and you need to be manufacturer of controllers. A think Yamaha can deny access to it for what ever reason they like. And it is not that many that have done anything impressive with it. Eucon is a big step up from MCU, but in Cubendo word it is far from it’s potential. And I think it using Eucon SDK and are integrated by Steinberg, presumable with their Remote SDK.

#7

I’m using DM2000 under Mac OS Mojave, and Studio Manager still works here.
You can control in Nuendo (and Cubase) with DM2000, faders, pan, sends, pre/post select, phase, buses, cues, eq, inserts, plug-ins, automation, transport, track arm, mutes, solos, surround panner, jog/shuttle, arrange window, mixer window, channel settings window, transport window, performance window…

#8

Can you do multiple selection on channels without keyboard? Can you join a VCA group? Linking? Is there AI and/or QC? Any control room functions? (That one might be strange question if you are supposed to use the mixer it self for that.)

#9

How’s the fader banking? Will it bank in blocks of 24 or are you limited to 8? More importantly, does the scribble strip on the desk match the track names in the DAW when you bank?

How do you control inserts? If you insert a compressor, do you use the channel compressor knobs and if you insert an EQ, then you use the channel EQ knobs OR are all of these controls on a separate MIDI/Controller Layer on the console?

#10

To make multiple track selection you must hold command key in your keyboard (or ctrl in Windows) or shift key.
Since you have 12 assignable key, you can select functions to these keys like link channels, assign VCAs, control room functions. But I haven’t got QC control yet, I don’t know if it’s possible.

#11

You’ve 4 keys in the DM2000 to navigate banks by +/-8 or +/-1. Scribble strip shows the name with 4 characters and it combines name to show you for example the 3 first characters and the las one. For example if you have “Ambient 1”, “Ambient 2”, “Ambient 3”… you’ll get “Amb1”, “Amb2” and so on. Also the strip shows you the pan or send position, monitor switch, bus on/of, bus assign 1 to 8, EQ enabled and insert if there’s any plugin in your track.

The channel EQ can be controlled with the EQ controllers in the DM2000. The other strip plug-ins are no controllable. Any insert can be controlled with the controls in the DM2000 display and you can re-assign them by using the Remote Control Editor.

My DAW control is composed by a DM2000, a Contour Shuttle Pro 2, a Euphonix MC Transport and an iPad running “Duet” in order to have touch control in the Edit channel window. I attach a picture of my desk. Very happy and close to a higher daw controller as Nuage.

Dolfo desk.jpg
Dolfo desk.jpg4032×3024 715 KB

#12

The ID controller by WK used a MIDI based protocol. I remember “learning” the MIDI controls and programming some of the stuff as a virtual control room app for the iPad that I used in the vocal booth.

#13

Thanks for that, does the desk follow mix console configuarations? It one of the main downfalls of eucon which makes it so frustrating g trying. To find tracks in large projects. A!so, what about third party plugins, most contro! surfaces default to Steinberg said etc which is also frustrating, I see that the Qcon controller does aa well as the Nekta Panorama but not much else when you look at the high end stuff.

#14

Yes, the DM2000 shows the same configuration as Mixer window. I’ve several presets to show groups, audio tracks, midi… and DM2000 follows them. And when a track is selected in the DM2000, the Nuendo Mixer window jumps to the track you’ve selected. I have always the Channel settings window opened in an iPad using “Duet” so you always will find there the track you’ve switched and you’ll get touch control for all their parameters. I think is pretty near of how master control of Nuage works (I know is not the same but…)
About plug-ings you can control almost anything of any plug-in. It can be hard because you must pass several pages in any case, but you can re-assign them by using Remote Control Editor and then yo’ve the parameters you need at your hand.

1 Like
#15

This sounds great, what about saving the whole track as a project with complete recall? Does that have to be a SIM card or can it be done via the studio manager which would be far more streamlined and easier to recall. I suppose a waves plug in card would bring up all the waves plugins on a waves server.

The only issue then would be finding a copy of studio manager that would run on it. Really appreciate your help, I sold my Roland vmc mix system a few years ago and regretted it ever since, the advice have been ok but not supported with eucon. Is the can on them very noisy? It was on the stage box but kept that I a different room!

#16

Hey Dolfo, are you still using the DM2000 to control Nuendo?
If so, what OS are you running and what Nuendo version?

Thanks

Marco

#17

Yes! Happily it’s my main brand for controlling Nuendo. I use DM2000 plus AVID Transport and one unit of AVID Artist Mix. For me it’s closely to be all I need and DM2000 helps to do complex cue mixes and 5.1 monitoring for example.
I’m using MacOS 10.14.6 and N11.0.10. Very stable and great performance in a Mac Pro 2 x 3,06 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon with 32 GB of RAM. I use a setup of 5 external displays with a NVIDIA GeForce FTX 760 and a Blackmagic Intensity Pro.