Hi all,
another sibelius-crossgrade post. In Sibelius, the parts layout went so that the page turn was placed conveniently at the multirest. This is not the case in dorico ant it costs me a lot of manual labour.
Am I missing any option I should enable to have this kind of layout automatically? Thanks!
No, there’s no automatic placement here, but adding a Frame Break where you want the music to start on a new page is pretty quick with Shift F.
Well, that is inconvenient, having the symphonic orchestra, just this dull work takes two - three hours; which was done automatically in Sibelius…
Well, there’s probably some time savings compared to Sibelius in other parts of the process!
How did those plate engravers ever manage???
There is no need to be rude. I found a similar topic from 2019, asking for the exactly same feature. Apparently, this is not on the top of the to-do. If people will request such a feature, maybe the Dorico team gets to do this and save us hours of dull post-production.
Well, in the old days before 1400 all the parts were hand-written.
Finale doesn’t do automatic turns either. On the other hand, it is easier to move things around quickly in Finale. So I agree that it would be a great boon for many users if Dorico did automatic turns.
On the other hand, I enjoy the challenge of finding great page turns in difficult music, like solo piano music. I hope that programmers who eventually tackle this do too!
Just noticed this thread with recent post at end. Apparently this is a planned capability for Dorico:
I can’t agree with this at all. It’s effortless to insert a Frame Break where you need it, and you don’t have to worry about ‘consequences’ of moving a system to a new page, as you would in Finale.
I used to spend half my life moving staves and systems manually in Finale; and I do next to nothing in Dorico by comparison.
Dorico is still young – less than eight years old – and there is still a LOT on the To Do list. Fully automatic page-turns with AI to consider where they should go would be nice, but it doesn’t stop us from creating the pages ourselves; whereas there are still some things that can’t be done at all.
Having created thousands of pages with Dorico and tens of thousands of pages with Finale, I strongly agree with this.
In the work I am doing now, every page constitutes a special case. I prefer Finale’s simple, straight-forward approach for work like this.
I remember having seen an option in Dorico to visually suggest page turns.
[edit] Sorry, I mixed it up with cue suggestions:
httpsq://www.steinberg.help/r/dorico-pro/5.1/en
Came to ask the same question, as I am doing parts right now and it is… laborious.
Just wanted to chime in here. Yes, laying out parts can be time-consuming but I am also one of the strange people who actually enjoys it. It can be like solving a puzzle sometimes. There are so many small details that a good copyist takes into account that I am not convinced an automated layout would be desirable or even possible. What Sibelius does is automatic but totally brain-dead. Just because there is a rest doesn’t mean it is the best place for a page turn or even that there is enough time to make it. And if there isn’t a rest, Sibelius just slaps a V.S. on it an calls it a day. There is no way you should use those automatically laid out parts in a professional situation unless you really don’t have the time to do it right. And also like automatic spacing algorithms, it doesn’t take into account phrasing or trying not to split hairpins or what is going on at the end of a left page when the eye has to jump to the top of the next page to name a few examples. These are things that i think still need a human touch.
Of course, you’re free to want whatever features you’d like, I just wanted to give my personal perspective on it.
This is kind of true, but the ability of Sibelius to automatically find the page turns really saves time when you are in a hurry. Knowing that you do not have to worry about the placement of two bars after a multirest at the end of a full page is somehow relieving.
I personally do enjoy the part making. I tweaked many of the Sibelius’ suggestions, however, I had something to start with. With Dorico, you just start from scratch even in the most obvious cases…