Create gap between bars in a system

Hi there,

I have tried to recreate the below screenshot (as I have done in Sibelius previously) and I simply can’t find a way to do it in Dorico 3. This is not the same as system break, or even splitting the same bar over two systems.

I would like to have a gap in between bars and be able to adjust the graphic width of the bar, which seems like something Dorico should be able to do.

Any thoughts?

Have you tried adding a coda and hiding the marker? In Engrave options you can adjust the gap.
Not sure if this is what you’re looking for.

That’s an ok way to split the bars how I would like, although I am left with the big bracket that groups all the instruments together (I would also like to do this in a full score).

Also, perhaps this is basic but I’m really struggling with changing bar width and therefore the gap in Engrave.

Further ideas on creating and editing the gap would be helpful! Thank you lafin :slight_smile:

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You can adjust it with the Note Spacing tool. Click the handle at the start of the bar and then move with Alt+Ctrl+arrow for larger movements, or just Alt+arrow for smaller.

Removing the group bracket in the score is an issue though. I’m not sure how to get around that.

Are these knocks playing with the rest of the ensemble, or are they disconnected in time from them (separately cued)?

If the latter, then using different flows for the knocks and combining them separately with the rest of the ensemble on a custom page (recommending one use a separate Page Template for this so it can be moved) would be my suggestion.

Hello @lafin, @FredGUnn and @Derrek. I’m so sorry for my (very) delayed response. I thought you might enjoy a progress update.

@lafin - I used the Coda → Hide option, which works ok, until I wanted to create a gap, continue on the same system and then for there to be nothing in the instruments that are tacet. In the first picture below, you can see four instruments in the first frame, then one of them plus a different instrument/group of players in the next frame. Had this all been in one frame, the C, R and T parts would be visible with empty bars below, which I don’t want as I only have use for the Full Score sheets when I lead this band.

@FredGUnn - Thank you for that, very useful. It’s long that I can’t just click and drag the box horizontally/vertically to its desired height/length, though. As it stands I spend what feels like an eternity with spamming my arrow keys when trying to reduce/increase bar width.

@Derrek - This project is a collection of the grooves and breaks that the drum section plays within a larger ensemble. No-one is reading as we play, so these notations are references when teaching/learning the parts. If it’s a groove that repeats, there are repeat marks, otherwise it’s a break that lasts for as long as its written duration, but could be cued at any time. So, to answer your question, yes, and no/yes.

One more thing: can anyone tell me the difference between ‘Move to Next System’ and ‘Create System Break’? I got all excited when I saw those features in Dorico 4, thinking my original prayers had been answered, but it just looks like hitting Shift+S, like before.

Many thanks and apologies again for the delay.

If you create a System Break and decide you should have created it one or two measures earlier or later, you could use Move to Next/Previous System to correct the positioning of the misplaced measures by moving just those measures to an earlier or later system.

Thus saving me the time of deleting the System Break and inputting a new one, in your scenario?

As I understand it:

  • Move to Previous System places the selected bar(s) at the end of the previous system, after all the other bars that are in that system. Kinda like what Make Into System does already, without having to select the previous system manually.

  • Move to Next System places the selected bar(s) in their own system, disjoined from the following music.

What I don’t understand is why this is the case. Either have it join the music on a different system or have it in its own system. Between all the various Graphic Editing options, it feels like a tautology of functions.

If I add a Coda to make a gap between bars in a system, I have to go to Engrave Options → Repeat Markers → Repeat Sections → and put a number of spaces (ex: 5) on “Default gap before mid-system coda section”.
That works. However, if you have a coda on the first measure of a system, this measure will also go 5 spaces to the right.
I tried going to Engrave Mode, choose Note Spacing and bring the big square of the first measure to the left, but it doesn’t go.

Is there a way I can maintain the gap between bars in a system but not moving the first bar to the right?

PS: For future versions of Dorico, it would be nice to be able to hide a full bar or to have a similar feature.

See this post from last week for a solution to that.

Thanks. So:
Engrave Options → Repeat Markers → Repeat Sections → Default gap before mid-system coda section = 1/100 (not zero).
Then, on Engrave Mode, use Note Spacing |<->| to make the gap bigger where you want.

With the codas placed to have the gap between measures, I’ve got a unwanted Dorico behavior when adding a measure (basically I want to include one more measure per system so the measure sizes become smaller). The systems below become disorganized. How to avoid this behavior? (See video).

testspacing.dorico (1.1 MB)

@Coe your video is not viewable, can you upload on some cloud service and post a link?

@Christian_R You might like to try using a different browser if you have one on your computer. I’m using a Mac and generally prefer to use Firefox rather than Apple’s Safari browser. The video plays in Safari, but not in Firefox. In Firefox, if I right-click on the video and choose “Open Video in New Tab”, the video downloads as an MP4 file and I can then play it in VLC, QuickTime Player, etc.

Hi @Coe I tried your file. I managed to overcome the issue by doing this:

-you have some double coda: delete the doubles
-go to layout options and choose Reset to factory

Now you are able to add the desired bars with the system track and no strange issue.

Try and let me now.

I am not sure which option causes this behavior…will search further.

[EDIT] Ok, I tried again:
no need to reset to factory the layout options.
just delete the double CODA signs, but each one at a time (select the first, and delete; select the second and delete and so on…). For some reason if you select all the doubles with command/control+click and delete, it doesn’t loose the problem, without afterward resetting the layout settings…

It doesn’t play on MS Edge

Thank you @StevenJones01 I am also on mac. And yes I tried on safari and as you say it works, thanks!! But in firefox, even with your suggestion to open in new tab the video, it gives the same problem. I have maybe some blocker active or some firefox misterious thing going on, will search for a solution. Thank you!

Have a look in Firefox > Preferences > General > Files and Applications > Applications. There you can “Choose how Firefox handles the files you download from the web or the applications you use while browsing.” (I copied this text from the relevant part of the Preferences page in Firefox.)

@StevenJones01 ahhhhh me stupid!: do you know?: after your suggestion for firefox (play in new tab) I tried but I clicked in the gray image of my post (screenshot) instead of the original video post :blush:
Yes, the visualisation in new tab works!!! Thank you!!!

Some how I got this

I deleted a measure and then I deleted the extra codas.